Experience with Sunny 16

charlief64 · Jan 9, 2012

I live at the beach in Sunny Southern California USA. Sunny 16 must have been invented for us. I also use my gut (a gut that has been shooting with and without a meter for 50 years). On super bright days, on the sand with a glare off the ocean, I've shot at f22 with great results.

removed-user-1 · Jan 9, 2012

I remember reading somewhere that the Sunny 16 rule - for an f/16 exposure - means noonday sun. I've used it for a long time and I get fine results on negative film (I haven't shot slides in a long time and when I do it's usually with a camera with a built-in meter). One thing I did when I was first learning photography was carry my light meter, but no camera, and attempt to estimate the exposure and then check it against the meter. This taught me a lot about the variance of light throughout the day and weather conditions.

My mentor, John Scarlata, said that his first trip to New Zealand gave him some exposure difficulties. He had to adjust his exposures down 20% or so to account for the bright light (compared to the Southeastern US especially).

Sirius Glass · Jan 9, 2012

Sunny 16 works well in most mid latitude areas, even in low latitude areas.

During the Winter in Rochester New York, it is Sunny 11 or Sunny 8. Why, because the color of the sky in the Winter in Rochester New York is the standard for the 18% middle gray card! That is one of the two reasons George Eastman founded Kodak in Rochester. The other reason is that Rochester New York is the World's Largest Natural Darkroom!

blockend · Jan 9, 2012

The most difficult time to estimate exposure is late afternoon, when light decreases rapidly but the eye compensates. Last summer I shot a sand sculpture competition on the beach and the meter fell three stops in a short duration. I'd have guessed no more than one.

benjiboy · Jan 10, 2012

My "sunny 16 " is to take a light meter reading first, then think about it taking my experience into consideration.

removed account4 · Jan 10, 2012

RalphLambrecht said:
spot on!good enoigh to calibrte the metin grmany ,floridaand elsewhere!

me too ralph, rhode island, massachusetts, new hampshire and eastern france summer or winter ...
my slides + negatives always looked good enough for me ... and sunny 11 is my friend

Sirius Glass · Jan 10, 2012

benjiboy said:
My "sunny 16 " is to take a light meter reading first, then think about it taking my experience into consideration.

Mine too.
35mm Nikon built in meters
120 Hasselblad PME [meter]; for spot meter Nikon F-100
4"x5" [5"x4"] Gossen Luna Pro

The exception and therefore using Sunny 16 is with the Tessina 35 Auto L.

Steve

Stephen Benskin · Jan 10, 2012

From the ANSI - Exposure Guide

8.3 Equivalent Incident-Light Values. The incident-light values (Iv) listed in Tables 1 to 10 are based on daylight (sun plus sky) measurements made with the photocell perpendicular to the direction of the sun on a clear day. The effectiveness of the light in exposing film in a camera varies with the sun-subject-camera angle. The light is most effective with the sun directly behind the camera, with an angle of 0°. In this situation, the equivalent incident-light value (I'v) is the same as the incident-light value (Iv).

Exposure adjustments for the factors in the checklist will be applied by decreasing or increasing incident-light value and identifying the adjusted number as the equivalent incident-light value.

9.1 The Key f-Number Rule. According to the well-known f/16 rule, the correct exposure is produced with a shutter setting of I/ISO (ASA) film speed (ISO arithmetic film speed) at an aperture setting of f/16 on a clear day with the subject facing the sun. This rule should produce the correct exposure in all situations in which an incident-light value (Iv) of 10-2/3 appears in the latitude-month-hour tables (given in Tables 1 through 10), providing that:

(1) The sun-subject-camera angle is approximately 55° to 80°, producing an equivalent incident-light value (I) of 10, and

(2) No adjustment is required for any other exposure factors.
The f/16 rule can be modified to include other incident-light values (Iv) and compensations for any exposure factors that apply by relating key f-numbers to the equivalent incident-light values (Iv).
Key f-numbers and equivalent incident-light values appear in the first two columns of the nomograph in Figure 20.

The procedure used to find the key f-number is as follows:

(1) Find the incident-light value (Iv) for the latitude, month, and hour in the appropriate table from Tables 1 through 10; for example, 10-2/3.
(2) Total any exposure adjustments needed, from the checklist of exposure factors in Table 11; for example, +2/3 stop for lighting direction.
(3) Subtract the second number from the first when an exposure increase is required, or add the second number to the first when an exposure decrease is required; for example, 10-2/3 2/3 = 10. Identify this number as the equivalent incident-light value (Iv).
(4) Select the key f-number from the first column corresponding to the equivalent incident-light value (Iv) in the second column of the daylight nomograph in Figure 20; for example, f/16.
(5) Expose the film at the key f-number and a shutter setting of 1 / ISO (ASA) film speed, or any comparable combination; for example, f/16 and 1/60 second for an ISO (ASA) 64 film speed.

9.2 Exposure Nomograph. The procedure when using the exposure nomograph is as follows:
(1) Find the incident-light value (Iv) for the lati¬tude, month, and hour in the appropriate table from Tables 1 through 10; for example, 10-2/3.
(2) Total any exposure adjustments needed from the checklist of exposure factors in Table 11.
(3) Subtract the second number from the first when an exposure increase is required, or add the second number to the first when an exposure decrease is required; for example, 10-2/3 2/3 = 10. Identify this number as the equivalent incident-light value (I'v).
(4) Locate the equivalent incident-light value (I'v) in the second column of the daylight nomograph in Figure 20 and align a straightedge from I'v to the ISO (ASA) film speed of the film being used (S) in the sixth column. Note where the straightedge crosses the exposure value (Ev) scale in the fourth column; for example, for an I'v of 10 and an ISO (ASA) 64 film speed, Ev = 14.
(5) Rotate the straightedge about the Ev to select any combination of f-number and exposure time in the second and fourth column; for example, f/8 and 1/250 second."

foc · Jan 11, 2012

I haven't used sunny 16 in years as all my cameras had built in meters. Last year I put a roll of Fuji C200 through my Zorki 4 and decided to try the sunny 16 rule. Ok I did allow Irish sunshine (rare as it is) and shot at sunny 11 at it was December. Here are two examples:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50664634@N08/5852104861/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50664634@N08/5852104861/in/photostream

benjiboy · Jan 11, 2012

Stephen Benskin said:
From the ANSI - Exposure Guide

View attachment 44202 View attachment 44203
View attachment 44205 View attachment 44204

8.3 Equivalent Incident-Light Values. The incident-light values (Iv) listed in Tables 1 to 10 are based on daylight (sun plus sky) measurements made with the photocell perpendicular to the direction of the sun on a clear day. The effectiveness of the light in exposing film in a camera varies with the sun-subject-camera angle. The light is most effective with the sun directly behind the camera, with an angle of 0°. In this situation, the equivalent incident-light value (I'v) is the same as the incident-light value (Iv).

Exposure adjustments for the factors in the checklist will be applied by decreasing or increasing incident-light value and identifying the adjusted number as the equivalent incident-light value.

9.1 The Key f-Number Rule. According to the well-known f/16 rule, the correct exposure is produced with a shutter setting of I/ISO (ASA) film speed (ISO arithmetic film speed) at an aperture setting of f/16 on a clear day with the subject facing the sun. This rule should produce the correct exposure in all situations in which an incident-light value (Iv) of 10-2/3 appears in the latitude-month-hour tables (given in Tables 1 through 10), providing that:

(1) The sun-subject-camera angle is approximately 55° to 80°, producing an equivalent incident-light value (I) of 10, and

(2) No adjustment is required for any other exposure factors.
The f/16 rule can be modified to include other incident-light values (Iv) and compensations for any exposure factors that apply by relating key f-numbers to the equivalent incident-light values (Iv).
Key f-numbers and equivalent incident-light values appear in the first two columns of the nomograph in Figure 20.

The procedure used to find the key f-number is as follows:

(1) Find the incident-light value (Iv) for the latitude, month, and hour in the appropriate table from Tables 1 through 10; for example, 10-2/3.
(2) Total any exposure adjustments needed, from the checklist of exposure factors in Table 11; for example, +2/3 stop for lighting direction.
(3) Subtract the second number from the first when an exposure increase is required, or add the second number to the first when an exposure decrease is required; for example, 10-2/3 2/3 = 10. Identify this number as the equivalent incident-light value (Iv).
(4) Select the key f-number from the first column corresponding to the equivalent incident-light value (Iv) in the second column of the daylight nomograph in Figure 20; for example, f/16.
(5) Expose the film at the key f-number and a shutter setting of 1 / ISO (ASA) film speed, or any comparable combination; for example, f/16 and 1/60 second for an ISO (ASA) 64 film speed.

9.2 Exposure Nomograph. The procedure when using the exposure nomograph is as follows:
(1) Find the incident-light value (Iv) for the lati¬tude, month, and hour in the appropriate table from Tables 1 through 10; for example, 10-2/3.
(2) Total any exposure adjustments needed from the checklist of exposure factors in Table 11.
(3) Subtract the second number from the first when an exposure increase is required, or add the second number to the first when an exposure decrease is required; for example, 10-2/3 2/3 = 10. Identify this number as the equivalent incident-light value (I'v).
(4) Locate the equivalent incident-light value (I'v) in the second column of the daylight nomograph in Figure 20 and align a straightedge from I'v to the ISO (ASA) film speed of the film being used (S) in the sixth column. Note where the straightedge crosses the exposure value (Ev) scale in the fourth column; for example, for an I'v of 10 and an ISO (ASA) 64 film speed, Ev = 14.
(5) Rotate the straightedge about the Ev to select any combination of f-number and exposure time in the second and fourth column; for example, f/8 and 1/250 second."

My brain hurts

Steve Smith · Jan 11, 2012

I sometimes use Johnson's Exposure Disc:

http://www.cwog.co.uk/share/johnsonexps.jpg

You put it into a start position then rotate it depending on time, time of year, film speed, light and scene.

To try out the method without having a disc, I have converted it to a series of adding and subtracting sequences as shown below:

Start with a number depending on ISO used:

ISO 25 +8
ISO 50 +9
ISO 100 +10
ISO 200 +11
ISO 400 +12
ISO 800 +13
ISO 1600 +14

Add a number depending on the light conditions:

Strong sun with white clouds +4
Strong Sun +3
Weak, hazy sun +2
Dull +1
Very dull 0

Add a number depending on the time and date:

May to August, 10 am to 3 pm +4
May to August, 8-10 am, 3-6 pm +3
May to August, 7-8 am, 6-7 pm +2
September, October, March & April, 10 am to 3 pm +3
September, October, March & April, 8-10 am, 3-6 pm +2
September, October, March & April, 7-8 am, 6-7 pm +2
November to February, 10 am to 3 pm +2
November to February, 9 to 10 am +1

And finally, subtract a number depending on the scene:

Open sea and sky and scenes from the air 0
Distant landscapes and beach and snow scenes -1
Open landscapes and scenes with light foreground -2
Groups in the open and near views of houses and trees -3
Distant buildings and wide streets -4
Scenes with heavy foreground and near landscapes -5
Close up portraits in the shade and scenes in heavy shade -6
Bright interiors -7
Dull interiors -14 (disc says rotate twice)

As a test, put in some standard sunny 16 settings:

ISO 100, start with 10
Bright sunny day, use strong sun setting adding 3 = 13
For mid day in June, add 4 = 17
For an open landscape, subtract 2 = 15

The numbers are EV or Exposure value numbers. EV 15 is 1/125 at f16 which is what sunny 16 recommends for these conditions.

I think the disc will be out by one stop at longer shutter speeds as it uses the older sequence of speeds which has six stops between 1/2 and 1/250. i.e. 1/2, 1/5, 1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/250 whereas a modern sequence will have seven stops. i.e. 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250.

Or perhaps this extra stop compensates for the one stop change film manufacturers introduced, probably after the disc was made. either way, I know the disc works as I have used it instead of a light meter many times.

Steve.

Mark_S · Jan 11, 2012

foc said:
I haven't used sunny 16 in years as all my cameras had built in meters.

I mostly use sunny 16 in situations where meters don't work - examples of where I have used Sunny 16 would include twilight exposures with a full moon where I wanted to capture detail on the moon - I figure that the moon is in full sunlight, so on a clear night, sunny 16 will give me a good exposure for the moon itself, and it worked.

Also, shooting Las Vegas at night - meter is useless because of the huge contrast in the scene - I mostly want to capture the neon lights, and those hold up well in daylight, so I figure that the exposure is sunny-16, perhaps a bit more - and voila, it worked.

Sirius Glass · Jan 11, 2012

Mark_S said:
I mostly use sunny 16 in situations where meters don't work - examples of where I have used Sunny 16 would include twilight exposures with a full moon where I wanted to capture detail on the moon - I figure that the moon is in full sunlight, so on a clear night, sunny 16 will give me a good exposure for the moon itself, and it worked.

Also, shooting Las Vegas at night - meter is useless because of the huge contrast in the scene - I mostly want to capture the neon lights, and those hold up well in daylight, so I figure that the exposure is sunny-16, perhaps a bit more - and voila, it worked.

For available light photography, I started using this slide rule http://www.stacken.kth.se/~maxz/files/jiffy.pdf published around 1963 or 1964 in Modern Photography Magazine. I have found that its recommendations have been spot on for me, but then again I only have four plus decades with it, so more experience may be needed.

ntenny · Jan 11, 2012

I've always found that in places where the sunlight doesn't seem obviously weird---oblique winter light, heavy filtering from Beijing smog, stuff like that---sunny 16 is dead on. Even at the low-temperate latitude of San Diego, I usually get sunny-11 conditions in winter. Sunny 22 is an extreme case, light-sand beach/desert conditions in full screaming sun, but I have seen it happen.

With negative film, I shoot on sunny-X principles all the time. I don't have the courage to do it with slide film for the most part.

-NT

MattKing · Jan 11, 2012

I use sunny 16 to keep me "grounded".

I always compare my meter readings with sunny 16 - that way I'm likely to catch the sort of errors that slavish reliance on machines can lead to.

Leigh B · Jan 11, 2012

Sunny 16 was devised in an era when smog and haze were not major problems.

I always start a session with an incident light reading, then adjust as needed for the subject and changing conditions.

- Leigh

Sirius Glass · Jan 11, 2012

Leigh B said:
Sunny 16 was devised in an era when smog and haze were not major problems.

I always start a session with an incident light reading, then adjust as needed for the subject and changing conditions.

- Leigh

I liked it better when the air was clean and words were dirty.

Stephen Benskin · Jan 11, 2012

MattKing said:
I use sunny 16 to keep me "grounded".

I always compare my meter readings with sunny 16 - that way I'm likely to catch the sort of errors that slavish reliance on machines can lead to.

Interesting fact: Calibration of the exposure meter is based on Sunny 16.

MattKing · Jan 12, 2012

Stephen Benskin said:
Interesting fact: Calibration of the exposure meter is based on Sunny 16.

Yes, but the setting of the meter (primarily EI) is subject to human error.

Choosing what to point the meter at is subject to human error.

Actually reading and interpreting what the meter says is subject to human error.

And meters do malfunction sometimes.

Stephen Benskin · Jan 13, 2012

Everything humans are associate with is subject to human error.

Rep4621 · Feb 13, 2012

Sunny 16 and a meter in jacket pocket to occasionally see if I'm on the right track.

RalphLambrecht · Feb 25, 2012

i hope the sun is also calibrated to sunny 16 ,oe,e are in...

thegman · Feb 25, 2012

I have found with negative film, Sunny 16 is perfect, and my exposures turned out fine. It's gets harder the darker it gets in my opinion. In broad daylight, I find it very effective. I'm in London, and I did the same in Hawaii, results were just as good.

Bill Burk · Feb 25, 2012

RalphLambrecht said:
i hope the sun is also calibrated to sunny 16 ,oe,e are in...

Ha good one Ralph!

And the change in 1960, did it have anything to do with space?

I bet scientists at NASA were anxious to get the negatives developed from the walk on the moon to verify if the sunny 16 rule applied there too.

Leigh B · Feb 25, 2012

RalphLambrecht said:
i hope the sun is also calibrated to sunny 16 ,oe,e are in...

The "Solar Constant" bears that name for a reason. The sun's energy output is quite uniform.

The f/16 correlation should be accurate at mid latitudes for subjects illuminated by direct sunlight
without intervening attenuation, like high clouds, haze, smog, etc, and without abnormally high
ground-level reflectivity (sand, water, etc)..

- Leigh

Experience with Sunny 16

charlief64

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Sirius Glass

blockend

benjiboy

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Sirius Glass

Stephen Benskin

foc

benjiboy

Steve Smith

Mark_S

Sirius Glass

ntenny

MattKing

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Leigh B

Sirius Glass

Stephen Benskin

MattKing

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Stephen Benskin

Rep4621

RalphLambrecht

thegman

Bill Burk

Leigh B

Experience with Sunny 16

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