Experience With Knob Winds?

4strinbass · Nov 29, 2014

Hi folks,

I'm a large fan of rangefinders. My primaries have been a Kiev 4 and an Argus C4. I've been considering a new one though since rewinding film in both has grown tedious over the years. They both have to be unloaded in film bags since their mechanisms don't function greatly.

I really just want a camera now that kind of disappears as I use it. Doesn't become obtrusive and I don't have to wrestle with.

I've been considering Minolta/Leica CLs and Canon Rangefinders—which brings me to this question:
Are knob winds really that bad? I hear a lot of people favouring levers, but if the knobs don't take more than two turns to advance I can see one suiting me perfectly fine.

BrianShaw · Nov 29, 2014

Not bad, just a slight bit slower... ever so slightly. Could be an issue with arthritic fingers but haven't had that experience quite yet myself.

4strinbass · Nov 29, 2014

Thanks Bryan. I've never been one to shoot rapidly so I think I'll consider one after all.

Fixcinater · Nov 29, 2014

I have a Canon V-T which has the trigger on the bottom and pop-up knob on the top. I wouldn't miss the trigger very much if it were gone as the knob is lightweight and compact and plenty fast enough for how I use 35mm cameras, especially rangefinders.

The V series viewfinder is quite a bit better for me than the IV and especially the earlier models as I wear glasses, and the 7's viewfinder even better than that. Making sure they are in good shape and cleaned properly makes a sizable difference as well.

I've not used any other brand of interchangeable lens LTM rangefinders, so I can't compare any of those models mentioned above to anything other than an M3.

4strinbass · Nov 29, 2014

Fixcinater said:
I have a Canon V-T which has the trigger on the bottom and pop-up knob on the top. I wouldn't miss the trigger very much if it were gone as the knob is lightweight and compact and plenty fast enough for how I use 35mm cameras, especially rangefinders.

The V series viewfinder is quite a bit better for me than the IV and especially the earlier models as I wear glasses, and the 7's viewfinder even better than that. Making sure they are in good shape and cleaned properly makes a sizable difference as well.

I've not used any other brand of interchangeable lens LTM rangefinders, so I can't compare any of those models mentioned above to anything other than an M3.

The V-T has been catching my eye. I've been trying to find dealers around me where I can check them out myself, but unfortunately I'm stuck inspecting eBay photos/asking questions, scouring used sections of online dealers, and checking KEH.

Fixcinater · Nov 29, 2014

Where are you located?

4strinbass · Nov 29, 2014

Fixcinater said:
Where are you located?

I'm located in Pittsburgh PA

Xmas · Nov 29, 2014

The VI-L, P & 7s are all fast handling cameras,
if you only use 5cm the VI best
if you only use 35mm the P best
if you need a 'built in' meter the 7 or the Canon clip on

Fixcinater · Nov 29, 2014

OK, I don't know of any shops there. KEH might be a good option as they have a liberal return policy.

The VT that I have has a viewfinder than is better than the Kiev 4A that I have but it mostly feels a good amount better in hand, much smoother winding and general feel. Still no frame lines but if you've been working with an Argus you'll probably enjoy the update.

4strinbass · Nov 29, 2014

Framelines aren't anything I'm worried about. I've never had a camera with them. Could always grab an accessory viewfinder if I felt the need for something more accurate.

AgX · Nov 29, 2014

As a side note:
there are cameras that use the wind lever for re-winding too. Such forms a kind of intermediate between a crank and a knob.

4strinbass · Nov 29, 2014

AgX said:
As a side note:
there are cameras that use the wind lever for re-winding too. Such forms a kind of intermediate between a crank and a knob.

Hmm, that's pretty interesting. You wouldn't happen to know any off the top of your head would you? Interested in how they're designed to function.

summicron1 · Nov 29, 2014

either a CL or a Leica IIIf is an amazing shooter -- I see a lot of CLs these days with dead meters, which is a shame, it is the camera's chief benefit, that and its compact size.

a IIIf is a knob wind, but it's very fast and smooth to use, and the simple mechanism, not to mention obscenely great build quality, makes it a marvelous carry-around shooter.

summicron1 · Nov 29, 2014

AgX said:
As a side note:
there are cameras that use the wind lever for re-winding too. Such forms a kind of intermediate between a crank and a knob.

never heard of one of these. Not saying they don't exist, but give an example, please?

I would worry about a complex mechanism being reliable.

cliveh · Nov 29, 2014

As someone who uses both lever wind and knob wind, I can't say I have ever noticed a difference. Lever wind is obviously faster, but shouldn't really effect your photography.

4strinbass · Nov 29, 2014

summicron1 said:
never heard of one of these. Not saying they don't exist, but give an example, please?

I would worry about a complex mechanism being reliable.

My thought exactly. Seems like a system that would be prone to failure. Simply an assumption though.

4strinbass · Nov 29, 2014

cliveh said:
As someone who uses both lever wind and knob wind, I can't say I have ever noticed a difference. Lever wind is obviously faster, but shouldn't really effect your photography.

Only benefit I can see really would be advancing frames more easily without lifting the camera away from a shooting position.

cliveh · Nov 29, 2014

4strinbass said:
Only benefit I can see really would be advancing frames more easily without lifting the camera away from a shooting position.

No, you can still use a knob wind without lifting away and I once viewed a film of HCB in action where he wound on with knob wind so fast it looked more like lever wind.

4strinbass · Nov 29, 2014

cliveh said:
No, you can still use a knob wind without lifting away and I once viewed a film of HCB in action where he wound on with knob wind so fast it looked more like lever wind.

Practice does make perfect.

AgX · Nov 29, 2014

summicron1 said:
never heard of one of these. Not saying they don't exist, but give an example, please?

I would worry about a complex mechanism being reliable.

For instance the compact finder camera Agfa Optima 535 and its family members: you press and twist a button and then the winding lever serves as re-winding lever, by that enabling the camera to be more campact or to build the finder somewhat bigger.

http://www.gigers.com/ernst/ALTEKAMERAS/Agfa/Optima-535-2.jpg

bdial · Nov 29, 2014

I don't particularly miss the lever on any of my knob-wind cameras, but I certainly miss a crank for rewinding.

j-dogg · Nov 29, 2014

I use both a knob rewind on my FED-2 and lever on my Minolta HiMatic 7s

I prefer the knob actually, less total arm movement and the knob feels good in my hands. The FED-2 one is big and fat so if you have large hands like me it will fit pretty well

MattKing · Nov 29, 2014

AgX said:
As a side note:
there are cameras that use the wind lever for re-winding too. Such forms a kind of intermediate between a crank and a knob.

The Retina S1 and S2 are examples.

Otherwise, they are slightly sad and unremarkable cameras, particularly in light of the fact that they were the last members of an otherwise fine family of cameras.

I did get some nice Kodachrome slides out of my S1 though.

summicron1 · Nov 29, 2014

AgX said:
For instance the compact finder camera Agfa Optima 535 and its family members: you press and twist a button and then the winding lever serves as re-winding lever, by that enabling the camera to be more campact or to build the finder somewhat bigger.

http://www.gigers.com/ernst/ALTEKAMERAS/Agfa/Optima-535-2.jpg

i had no idea. I just gave one of those away. Had it for years, never used it, didn't see myself ever using it. It's a basic pt and sht.

AgX · Nov 30, 2014

It has an outstanding finder for its period and size.

Experience With Knob Winds?

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