Exercising Your Shutters

dpurdy · Mar 3, 2012

As I said I don't care about your theory. If you keep using your shutter it will keep working fine. If you stop using it and store it away it will stop working fine.
Dennis

BrianShaw · Mar 3, 2012

As you wish.

fotch · Mar 3, 2012

Whatever

BrianShaw · Mar 3, 2012

Indeed.

fotch · Mar 3, 2012

Got it.

Toffle · Mar 3, 2012

Ok, I have this Jim Galli shutter that needs adjustment. It's fine in B and T modes, but the faster speeds are really iffy. What sort of exercise would you suggest to improve my shutter performance?

dehk · Mar 3, 2012

A drop of lighter fluid at the right place.

brucemuir · Mar 3, 2012

Toffle said:
Ok, I have this Jim Galli shutter that needs adjustment. It's fine in B and T modes, but the faster speeds are really iffy. What sort of exercise would you suggest to improve my shutter performance?

20 jumping jacks per day for a week prior to shooting in bright conditions

Leigh B · Mar 3, 2012

The only reason a shutter will become sluggish is if the lubricants dry up, and then only if they were applied incorrectly in the first place.

Proper lubrication of a shutter uses MINISCULE amounts of several different lubricants in specific places.

You won't find many shops that use correct lubricants anymore. Products sold by Nye and Canon can run ~$90/ounce.

And the nonsense about lighter fluid is just that... nonsense.
A proper CLA of a shutter involves complete disassembly, cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, lubrication of certain points with correct lubricants, reassembly and testing, with adjustments as necessary. There are no shortcuts.

Regarding the original question... Exercising certainly doesn't hurt anything, but it probably is of little benefit. Personal preference.

Shutters are normally stored cocked. You only have the un-cocked option on a few shutters, like those for LF cameras.
There's only a slight difference in spring tension between the cocked and released states, certainly not enough to make any difference.

- Leigh

dehk · Mar 3, 2012

Leigh B said:
.....

And the nonsense about lighter fluid is just that... nonsense.
A proper CLA of a shutter involves complete disassembly, cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, lubrication of certain points with correct lubricants, reassembly and testing, with adjustments as necessary. There are no shortcuts.

- Leigh

Clarification:

- I was answering to the post above me "to improve the shutter performance"
- The lighter fluid in fact, have a great chance to, IMPROVE, the performance.
- Is it a proper CLA or a permanent fix? No. Did not say that.

Peace.

Chuck_P · Mar 3, 2012

Well, there is certainly a diversity of opinions..............it makes me feel better to exercise them, so I don't guess it won't hurt anything. I just wander what makes the lubricant(s) dry up, mostly time and age I guess.

fotch · Mar 3, 2012

"what makes the lubricant(s) dry up, mostly time and age I guess. "

Also dust, dirt, moisture. Unlikely that a shutter is totally sealed and dust, mixed with use, along with age, alters the lubrication. Think about your car, do you need to change the oil and filter? Will driving it often eliminate the need to do this?

I don't think exercising matters, age does. However, what ever floats your boat.

Leigh B · Mar 4, 2012

CPorter said:
I just wander what makes the lubricant(s) dry up, mostly time and age I guess.

Proper lubricants won't.

Camera lubricants (and watch lubricants) are designed to maintain their corporeal integrity for decades.
They don't separate, migrate, dry up, or become gummy.

That's why they're so expensive, and the cost is why very few repair shops use them.

As fotch said, all lubricants are subject to contamination. There's really nothing that can be done about that.
But it doesn't degrade the performance unless the lubricant dries or becomes gummy.

- Leigh

removed account4 · Mar 4, 2012

it all depends on the shutter ...
some shutters are run DRY, you put a lubricant in there
it will ruin the mechanism, and some shutters are run WET
and if put naptha/ white gas/ whatever youput in there, in there
you will run it DRY and it will ruin the shutter .. its best to have someone
who knows what they are doing work on your shutter ... unless you know what you are doing
have tools to clean and lubricate parts that need ( or don't need ) it, and adjust the speeds ...
the good think about a person who knows how to do a cla is some may be a machinist
and if a part is broken or missing or ??? they can just make a new one,
or they may have an identical shutter they can harvest parts off of.
regards to cocked or uncocked ..
i don't think it matters much ...
steve grimes used to comment on this once in a while ( not sure if it was here, pn or lf/lusenet )
from what i remember, he said either way is fine ...

i miss steve ... he was a smart knowledgeable expert who gladly shared his knowledge ...

john

BrianShaw · Mar 4, 2012

jnanian said:
.. its best to have someone who knows what they are doing work on your shutter ... unless you know what you are doing have tools to clean and lubricate parts that need ( or don't need ) it, and adjust the speeds ...

This is all most folks really needs to know about shutter repair. What is also important is for people interested in this topic to discern the fact from the folly regarding cleaning techniques, lubrication, etc. Many factory repair manuals are availble either free on the internet or via various sellers of repair manuals. I'll never forget the conversation I was once involved with when someone pronounced a specific shutter to be designed to be run dry, and then argued the point after I posted the factory service manual's lubrication schedule that showed lubricants and lubrication locations FOR THAT EXACT SHUTTER. Surely almost any shutter might run dry even if intended to be lubricated, but that operational condition might not last as long as it should.

BrianShaw · Mar 4, 2012

Leigh B said:
That's why they're (lubricants) so expensive, and the cost is why very few repair shops use them.

I fear that you may be right. What a shame. I know high-quality lubricants are expensive but for either a pro or an amateur who plans on doing more than one shutter/clock/watch, that attitude seems quite self-defeating. Just like short-cutting cleaning fluids. Why would anyone who is serious undermine themselves like that? I know when I started clock restoration, and then moved to watch and shutters I bought lubricants and paid dearly for them. But short of wonton wasteage so little gets used that the cost is amortized over many, many units and the per-unit cost is practically negligable. Failure to do proper cleaning or proper lubrication often results in two things: premature/unexpected failure and upset customers. Why would anyone who is serious undermine themselves like that?

David Lyga · Mar 4, 2012

For a CLEAN (after the lighter fluid bath) shutter (mechanical only, folks) I might (NOT ALWAYS) put a drop or two of mineral oil (baby oil) onto the gear mechanism. NEVER problems. - David Lyga

BrianShaw · Mar 4, 2012

You must have very nice smelling shutters, David.

fotch · Mar 4, 2012

Leigh B said:
Proper lubricants won't.

Camera lubricants (and watch lubricants) are designed to maintain their corporeal integrity for decades.
They don't separate, migrate, dry up, or become gummy.

That's why they're so expensive, and the cost is why very few repair shops use them.

As fotch said, all lubricants are subject to contamination. There's really nothing that can be done about that.
But it doesn't degrade the performance unless the lubricant dries or becomes gummy.

- Leigh

Leigh, I respectfully agree to disagree. Decades? Where are you getting this information?

Oil can go rancid in a few years, especially if it is natural oil, usually whale oil. However, even synthetics age. Old oil, mixed with dust, will damage a clock in far less than a decade. While American clocks may run for decades without proper care, when you take them apart to repair, the pivots and bushing will range from really poor to extremely bad. Not unusual to replace most of the bushings and turn down the pivots or in a worst case, have to replace the pivot, which is a big project

I know many of the instructors of the NAWCC, many also belong to the AWCI, have attended many classes and workshops, this is where my info comes from plus personal experience in restoring clocks.

Now, clocks are different, they run 24 hours a day, year after year. A camera shutter is only an intermediate timer, usually less than a second. However, the oil will dry up and affect it, maybe even stopping it. Since the shutter may have been stored in a case, in a closet, probably will get less dust into it. However, it will get some and the oil, will go bad, eventually. The steel against steel, may still work, just have a lot of friction, also, slowly wearing itself out. You cannot clean anything, shutter, clock, watch, without a complete dis-assembly. Using lighter fluid is only a temporary solution.

georg16nik · Mar 4, 2012

There are several central shutters, designed to work almost dry. For everything else, if there are no aluminum parts, graphite powder is good, otherwise molybdenum disulphide powder is better than any oil.

Exercise shutters once every few weeks or so, depending on climate etc, is good routine.

Its not big deal, as long as its not a plastic shutter

jscott · Mar 4, 2012

I took a bunch (8 or so) of large format lenses to a professional shop for testing, and the technician showed me how the first, second and sometimes third shots on a lens were always slow and erratic, and then the times started to agree with each other. This was true of every shutter tested that day.
So it is important to shoot a few blanks before burning film.

Makes me wonder about older cameras with shutters coupled to the winding mechanism (for example newer Rolleiflex), where you can't fire blanks to "warm up" the shutter. Seems like a lot of cameras built after the '30's have double exposure locks that don't allow you to exercise the shutter when film is in the camera. Perhaps it's another reason to shoot LF?

BrianShaw · Mar 4, 2012

georg16nik said:
There are several central shutters, designed to work almost dry.

To further the intelligent discussion perhaps you can be specifif. People seem to repeat this without specifics and make inorrect assumptions. Like the time someone was saying a dial Compur was designed to rum dry, but not according to the Compur repair manual... Or Graphex. So please state which were intended by the manufacturer to run dry please.

Click to expand...

BrianShaw · Mar 4, 2012

Fotch, I'm always surprised when people fail to understand that repivoting a clock is the result of deferred maintenance and is a repair job, not really just a part of a normal clock servicing.

fotch · Mar 4, 2012

BrianShaw said:
Fotch, I'm always surprised when people fail to understand that repivoting a clock is the result of deferred maintenance and is a repair job, not really just a part of a normal clock servicing.

Deferred maintenance, like old lube and dirt?

georg16nik · Mar 4, 2012

BrianShaw said:
georg16nik said:

There are several central shutters, designed to work almost dry.

To further the intelligent discussion perhaps you can be specifif. People seem to repeat this without specifics and make inorrect assumptions. Like the time someone was saying a dial Compur was designed to rum dry, but not according to the Compur repair manual... Or Graphex. So please state which were intended by the manufacturer to run dry please.

Click to expand...

Some Gauthier shutters and a lot more russian GOMZ shutters, designed to work in the -40°C range

Click to expand...

Exercising Your Shutters

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