Excited to be here and feeling a little lost! (JodyM from DC)

JodyM · Jan 17, 2011

Hello new friends! I recently bought a Contax 645, my first film camera in 20 years and I'm feeling... just a little lost.

I have been shooting with a DSLR for several years now and have started a small child/family photography business (you can see my website here: http://www.jodymphotography.com/blog). I have always been intrigued by film though. I shot film (a 35mm Yashica) for several years when I took a photography class at high school (in Japan). I finally decided to give it a try (again) but I'm feeling like a new baby bird.

I am starting a darkroom class this week at a local Art League and I'm way nervous. I went to my local Barnes and Noble to buy a book on how to shoot film and what-da-ya-know... all digital! If anyone has any recommendations on books (basically a how-to for beginners) I would really appreciate it.

I am SO excited to get started and be a part of this community.

Ian Grant · Jan 17, 2011

Good for you Jody and welcome.

A useful start is the Ansel Adams trilogy, The Negative, The Print & The Camera.

There's nought to be nervous about

Ian

keithwms · Jan 17, 2011

Welcome to APUG!

Don't be lost / nervous, there are many resources here... many people who do their own development and printing etc.

By the way, I'm in the DC area, in Alexandria. There are quite a few DC folk on APUG.

RE: books, the one everyone's all agog about right now is Way Beyond Monochrome Ed. 2, which is a comprehensive tome.

http://www.amazon.com/Way-Beyond-Monochrome-Traditional-Photography/dp/0240816250/ref=cm_cr-mr-title

However, it is indeed a tome, and it might be overkill right now. I suspect what you probably need first is a quick refresher with a friend and/or the class you mention. After you are up to speed, then WBM will probably be very useful.

Some years ago when I started doing my own b&w prints, I bought a book by Lee Frost; it includes many helpful examples of the many different directions you can take with b&w:

http://www.amazon.com/Frosts-Simple...2X/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1295299967&sr=8-12

I highly recommend this book.

You'll have lots of fun. It'll be like a homecoming. Don't be nervous. Nervous is what people should feel when their DSLR costs as much as their car

fotch · Jan 17, 2011

Hi Jody and welcome to APUG. Check out some of the Kodak books at your local library. Good Luck.

Black Dog · Jan 17, 2011

Not all who wander are lost....welcome to the APUG jungle. Also recommend the Darkroom Handbook by Michael Langford [Ebury Press] and John Blakemore's B+W Photography Workshop [David and Charles]-this is more one to grow into but it does bridge the gap between the monograph and the more technical book, plus there are some fantastic images in it!

holmburgers · Jan 17, 2011

I got a lot out of Andreas Feininger's books. The Complete Photographer, Photographic Seeing, Successful Photography, etc. They're older, no nonsense, straightforward and insightful.

I got a lot out of Ansel Adam's books as well, but something tells me I'd rather have a beer or coffee with Feininger....

mooseontheloose · Jan 17, 2011

Hi Jody,

Welcome to APUG! When I first got serious about photography it was here in Japan, and I had to do all my learning through books I bought through amazon. Are you looking for books about shooting film or printing in the darkroom? Or both? Some books are good for one, some for the other. Not so many for both. I highly recommend going to a local library (or university/college library that has a photography program) and browsing the books they have there before buying anything.

Ansel Adams has been recommended time and again and I'm sure he works for some people, but I have never been able to get through any of his books, even now that I know what I'm doing. My favorite darkroom printing book is Tim Rudman's "Photographer's Master Printing Course" which is not a tome, and very easy to read with very clear instructions and photos (but maybe not easy to find new). He sometimes posts here on APUG as well, which is great. As for shooting film...well, it's not that different from digital -- f/stops, shutter speeds, and ISO speeds all follow the basic rules. I always used to give my friends starting out with photography the National Geographic Field Guide to photography -- old editions will still have film in them (I'm not sure about the latest one), and they are basic, easy to read, and have lots of example pictures, with everything from choosing a camera and film, to shooting in various lighting conditions, and of ways of shooting different kinds of subjects.

Chazzy · Jan 17, 2011

Welcome to APUG, Jody. Has your class even met for the first time? I'm guessing that there will be a textbook, and I would start with that.

TheFlyingCamera · Jan 17, 2011

Welcome from another Washingtonian! Give a shout if you want to go out shooting sometime with a group of us in a no-pressure, very friendly situation. Bookwise, the Henry Horenstein Introduction to Black and White and Beyond Basic Photography books are really good textbooks.

johnnywalker · Jan 17, 2011

Black and White Photography: A Basic Manual; and
Beyond Basic Photography: A Technical Manual.
Both by Henry Horenstein.

These were published in the 70's and may be out of print, but I found the latter book an excellent resource and have heard good things about the former.

Jeff Kubach · Jan 17, 2011

Welcome to APUG Jody. You might check out the local library.

Jeff

JodyM · Jan 17, 2011

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses. I'm taking notes for sure.

I am looking for advice on shooting not necessarily developing (YET--I know that will come later). I realize it's the same pyramid as a DSLR (ISO, aperture and shutterspeed) but the film adds a whole new dimension to it for me. For example (no need to explain here) but I've heard about pushing and pulling. From what I gather this can be done during shooting and during developing. It has me confused because from what I've read if you push 400 film to 800 film you are underexposing... but if I changed my DSLR from 400 to 800 and kept the same settings I believe I would be overexposing. I'm not asking for an explanation, but just an example of my general confusion and what I need to learn.

I am also confused by all my film options and not being able to chimp of course makes me nervous about my exposure. I know in the long run this will make me a better photographer though. I don't remember having (huge) problems before so I don't know why I'm so worried about it now--I guess it's just the crutch of digital.

My darkroom class starts on Sunday and I am hoping for some sort of darkroom/developing textbook/workbook in the class.

THANKS AGAIN for all the recommendations and warm welcome.

2F/2F · Jan 17, 2011

I like the Ansel Adams trilogy too, but I would probably save that for my second bit of study, after reading a basic photography textbook. It is very specific, and provides a whole lot of good-to-know, but unneeded information right off the bat. "Photography" by London and Upton (or Upton and Upton in some earlier editions; I believe the two authors were formerly married), or "Black and White Photography" by Henry Horenstein (now a professor at RISD) are two classroom standards. Both should be available cheap on the used market, and found easily on Amazon dot com, or maybe even in your local used book shop.

Welcome, and we're glad you found us.

As for being overwhelmed, that is totally normal. My advice is to not let the technical minutia of photography distract you from what really matters most: concepts and composition. Technical stuff can be learned by anybody in time; at least the bare minimum needed to bend the tools roughly to your desires will come to anybody via enough practice and study. The other stuff is difficult, if not impossible to teach, and all the technical stuff is simply a means to these ends.

Photography, like musical performance, is very forgiving in that once you have grasped a few of the very basic technical principles, you have already learned 90 percent of the stuff you need to know to completely manipulate your pictures on a technical level. Technique is simply learning how to manipulate your tools in order to get the non-tangible content that you want. That desired content should always come first, and the techniques should simply be used to build the path to it. Do that in reverse, and you have 90 percent of the crap that is out there.

There is a lot of technical talk here, because it is hard to talk about content in an Internet forum. I come here mostly for technical reasons (to "talk shop"), but it is a good place people at all levels of technical involvement with the hobby.

papagene · Jan 17, 2011

Jody - hello and welcome to APUG from western Massachusetts.

SuzanneR · Jan 17, 2011

Jody, welcome to APUG from a former denizen of the Wash DC area, but now outside Boston. Taking a hands on class is the best way to learn quickly. Henry Horenstein has written some good basic how to books. You might google him. (I've always found the Ansel Adams books poorly written, but others might find them very useful.)

Look around, use the search function, ask questions, share some pictures, and enjoy your journey with film!

RPippin · Jan 17, 2011

Hi Jody, and welcome to APUG. You'll be getting lots of advice, but the best advice I ever got was KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). That being said, I'm still trying to simplify things. As far as film and the question of push or pull and all that crap, order some Foma 400 from Freestyle in California to start. It's quite forgiving and you don't need to worry so much about developing it wrong. Just go and shoot lots of film and see what you get, you'll find out what all the fuss is about soon enough. Try and meet up with other folks in the D.C. area, Keith Williams is not only one of the most knowledgable and talented photographers out there, he is also a dear friend and my all time favorite person around. Nothing beats having someone you can call when questions come up. Go out and shoot, and keep in touch.

white.elephant · Jan 17, 2011

Well, at least you've chosen a stunning camera to begin your film journey. Welcome!

Ottrdaemmerung · Jan 17, 2011

Welcome, Jody! Regarding pushing/pulling film, your film vs. digital analogy isn't quite accurate. If you change a DSLR from 400 to 800 and keep the same settings you are indeed overexposing, but this isn't quite the way a film camera works. Let's just say you want to push your 400 film to 800. You have 400 ISO film in the camera, and you tell your camera that you actually have 800 ISO film in it; this has the effect of UNDERexposing the film by one stop (since the film you have isn't as sensitive as the settings the camera is feeding it). Then you develop the film as if you're using 800 film instead of 400 (which usually means developing it for a longer time), so you're actually OVERdeveloping it by one stop - so the net effect is correct exposure, but you've done it by tweaking the film. Most negative films have two/three stops of latitude for pushing and one/two for pulling.

If you do get into developing film, Anchell & Troop's The Film Developing Cookbook is an invaluable resource. The Darkroom Cookbook goes even more in-depth, especially about printing.

RPippin · Jan 18, 2011

Hey Jody,
Been thinking about the book thing in regards to darkroom work. Over the last 4 years, I've tried to read all the material out there, take lots of workshops, and spend way to much money on paper and chemicals (yes, I have to much time on my hands), in an effort to improve on my darkroom skills. The one book that stands out as the all time best has been for me, The Elements of Black and White Printing, Going Beyond Darkroom Basics, by Carson Graves. I picked up a copy from Amazon, and it really is pretty down to earth and easy to follow. Bottom line is, there is a wealth of info out there, but not in Barnes and Noble. Contact me or Keith for a meetup sometime, you'll be inundated with info and maybe even a field trip of two. We're always planning little "Photo Safari's".

JodyM · Jan 18, 2011

I'm overwhelmed by all your responses. I just wanted to say thank you one more time. Scott/Keith - it's nice to know you are close by. Suzanne - I have been a subscriber to your blog for a while. Thanks again everyone. I'm excited to get started with these books, my new camera, and my darkroom classes. Thanks again everyone!

Steve Smith · Jan 18, 2011

JodyM said:
It has me confused because from what I've read if you push 400 film to 800 film you are underexposing... but if I changed my DSLR from 400 to 800 and kept the same settings I believe I would be overexposing.

Not quite the same (you have it the wrong way round). If you had your camera set to 400 and gave it the exposure which would be correct for 800, you would be under-exposing i.e. giving it less light.

It's the same with film. With the DSLR image you could increase the brightness in post processing. With film you increase the negative density (and hence the print lightness) by increasing development time.

Oh yes.... Welcome!

Steve.

mbsmith · Jan 18, 2011

JodyM said:
I went to my local Barnes and Noble to buy a book on how to shoot film and what-da-ya-know... all digital! If anyone has any recommendations on books (basically a how-to for beginners) I would really appreciate it.

The good news is that you can find used copies of film books for CHEAP! (literally, a couple of dollars in some cases). I've picked up a wide range of books this way, from text books to Adams' landmark works. If you use online booksellers, you can often find titles for shipping costs only. And, of course, your local library should still have some of the classics.

Read, study, shoot. And take lots of notes. I think you'll find that this whole process will not only teach you a bit about shooting with film, but more about photography (form, aesthetic, philosophy, etc.) in general.

Best of luck.

M.A.Longmore · Jan 18, 2011

.
Welcome Home Jody !

Black Dog · Jan 18, 2011

The Craft Of Photography by David Vestal is good as well-out of print but you can probably track down a used copy somewhere like Alibris.

cowanw · Jan 18, 2011

I think your first camera is arguably the best roll film camera ever made. Note Bias: I have one.
Once you really understand the example of confusion you described, you will have accomplished one of the most important things to learn.
If the library has the Time Life volumes on photography, you will find those a great start and inspiring.

Excited to be here and feeling a little lost! (JodyM from DC)

JodyM

Ian Grant

keithwms

fotch

Black Dog

holmburgers

mooseontheloose

Chazzy

TheFlyingCamera

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Jeff Kubach

JodyM

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RPippin

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Ottrdaemmerung

RPippin

JodyM

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Excited to be here and feeling a little lost! (JodyM from DC)

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