Excited I got my first MF folder -- but there are issues

Andrew Patteson · Mar 14, 2021

Thank you for all the input, all.

Grat, you got it -- that's the one. I decided I wasn't concerned about the cosmetics of the leatherette, and the lens glass is actually fine, but I was too much of a folder newbie to spot those other issues. It does look like there is something off with the lens assembly. I was thinking about just trying to live with it and do some bellows repair, but then also I noticed that the shutter is sluggish on first firing after not being fired for a few hours. So with that, and the issues you point out, I will open a return request.

I really appreciate everyone's time.

shutterfinger · Mar 14, 2021

Well one looked it up, a plus.
Noted discrepancies and sluggish shutter = return.

Randy Stewart · Mar 22, 2021

Return the camera. The repairs you seem to need would collectively cost more than the camera would be worth if fully repaired. Pearl III cameras in good shape are fairly common and should cost less than just these repairs. The lens is quite good. The weak point of this model is the odd automatic film advance stop built into the base of the film wind knob on the camera bottom. Years ago, Japan sources on ebay seemed to be conservative in their descriptions and highly reliable. Today, that seems not to be the case at all. Pay the return shipping if necessary and be glad to be rid of this puppy.

darinwc · Mar 23, 2021

I am glad you returned it.. as said above, there are some sellers in Japan with dubious descriptions. "Excellent+++" for a junk camera. Seems to be the norm on Ebay.

Its too bad.. the Konica Pearl III is a neat little camera.

Donald Qualls · Mar 24, 2021

Another option -- not necessarily to seek out, due to relative rarity, but to keep an eye open for in case one pops up -- is the Super Zenobia. It's the coupled RF version of the Daiichi Zenobia. Nice lens, very compact (barely bigger than a 35mm) and unlike some, the Super isn't visibly larger than the regular Zenobia -- they fit the RF under the same top plate. The baseline is short, but unless you're shooting near wide open it should be accurate enough.

xya · Mar 24, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Another option -- not necessarily to seek out, due to relative rarity, but to keep an eye open for in case one pops up -- is the Super Zenobia. It's the coupled RF version of the Daiichi Zenobia. Nice lens, very compact (barely bigger than a 35mm) and unlike some, the Super isn't visibly larger than the regular Zenobia -- they fit the RF under the same top plate. The baseline is short, but unless you're shooting near wide open it should be accurate enough.

it's as cute as the pearl III, but there is no automatic film advance. I had one, it was quickly forgotten in a drawer, as the pearl III is so much easier. but picture quality was the same indeed. and if you can deal without a rangefinder, just get an ordinary zenobia, same good lens, but so much cheaper...

Grim Tuesday · Mar 24, 2021

Doesn't the Zenobia have front-cell focus while the Pearl unit focuses? I am not a huge believer that front-cell focus lenses degrade picture quality by a huge amount but I am sure that they cause more missed focus. For whatever reason, front cell focus lenses (at least the ones on my Perkeo and Super Ikonta) exhibit a very large amount of aperture-dependent focus shift. The effect is reduced because the focus misses most as aperture gets smaller and depth of field gets larger, but I think it makes many people feel that their folder is less sharp at say, f5.6 or f8 than it should be. Unit focus folders are much less affected. Olympus was one of the only manufacturers to pay attention to this and on their front-cell focus Olympus Six they included different focus scales for different apertures. Very clever.

Donald Qualls · Mar 24, 2021

I have a Zenobia; yes, it's a front-element focus. I haven't noted aperture focus shift -- generally, if I don't just plain forget to focus, my focus on the scale is okay even at f/5.6 or f/4 (on an f/3.5 lens). The lens is a Cooke triplet, but seems to be a very good one.

No "automatic" film advance might be seen as an advantage -- yes, if I'm shooting from my car, it'd be nice to be able to just turn the knob until it stops, but otherwise, I like having less to break, and taking personal responsibility for frame spacing (my Super Ikonta B has fairly uneven spacing, likely due to wear in the mechanism).

Grim Tuesday · Mar 24, 2021

Agreed on the "automatic" film advance actually being a disadvantage. And I just realized that all my experience with front-cell focusing is with tessars. Perhaps triplets are less affected. Maybe this could lead to the phenomenon I often see on forums of people who have "surprisingly good triplets in comparison to tessars on folding cameras"?

Donald Qualls · Mar 24, 2021

I can't give a good comparison between triplets and Tessars, unit and front-cell,, because I don't have any examples that vary in only one dimension. My Super Ikonta B (early post-War, uncoated Tessar 80/2.8, front focus), my Mamiya 6 (mid-1950s, unit/film plane focus, ;75/3.5 Zuiko -- 5-element?), and my Zenobia (75/3.5 front focus triplet) have too many variations from one to the next -- the Mamiya ought to be the best, with film-plane focus and hold-flat system, the Super Ikonta is often claimed to have jumped the shark for lens speed of a Tessar, and the Zenobia is almost lowest common denominator -- but at their best (stopped down, on tripod), all three are very similar in image quality.

Grim Tuesday · Mar 26, 2021

Alright folks, I did the same thing as OP did and I have the same question. The setup: "Mint" condition camera, a Fuji Super Six, the best condition camera of this type eBay when I bought it. I paid the "mint tax" to get something I thought would be the best possible version of this camera so I could fairly judge it.

Description:
■ Optics "Lens"
Beautiful condition for this age!
No fog/haze.
No fungus.
No scratches.
No separation.
A few dusts.

Pictured camera:

Result:

I am quite sure the seller is aware of the actual condition because the front element was loose e.g. they cleaned out whatever was in here before and maybe caused some of the scratches?

What should I do? I am sure they will offer me a partial refund if I ask. I am also sure they will put up a fuss if I ask for them to pay for the return shipping, even though eBay would certainly side with me if I did. Should I go through that trouble? I am usually not picky about lens scratches, but I become much more picky when something is described as, and I pay the premium for, "Mint Condition" anything.

OrientPoint · Mar 26, 2021

Send it back! "No scratches" is not what you received.

Wayne · Mar 26, 2021

But was it Mint +? How many pluses?

I'd send it back for this "Near Mint" one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313441868666

Dan Daniel · Mar 27, 2021

Grim Tuesday said:
I am usually not picky about lens scratches, but I become much more picky when something is described as, and I pay the premium for, "Mint Condition" anything.

I am not really picky about lens scratches, either, but that lens crosses my line. Send it back, and make them pay. As long as they can get away with the bogus listings they will keep doing it.

By the way, how many sales did this seller have? I notice a lot of low count sellers in the Ebay Japanese EXC++++++++++++++++ game, many from the same location. I'm wondering if there is a way to pick out the scammers. Do people kill an account after too many complaints and bounce to another one, again and again?

xya · Apr 16, 2021

I should not have said that I was often lucky with japanese sellers. this was in the past and there seems to be a big change in japan. I just bought a super fujica 6 from japan, rated EXC +++. I have looked at the photos and the description closely. by the photos I knew that I bought one not nice from the outside, but the listing said: "It works properly. Everything works very well." it has rust on the housing, heavy paint wear, both less visible on the photos than in real. the lens is dirty, the shutter has heavy problems (erratic and unreliable), the film advance does not stop, double exposure prevention does not work and the rangefinder has faded to uselessness. "It works properly. Everything works very well." no!!! this was probably my last purchase from a japanese seller...

AnselMortensen · Apr 16, 2021

I recently bought a used Schneider LF lens from Japan.
"No scratches, no fungus, no haze, a few small dusts".
"The shutter works properly".
All true.
But....they conveniently forgot to mention the worst case of "Schneideritis" I've ever seen.
The photos were carefully set up so that it wouldn't show.
This appeared to be the nicest copy available on Ebay at the time.
Caveat emptor.

Grim Tuesday · Apr 17, 2021

AnselMortensen said:
Caveat emptor.

I don't think so. On ebay, it is seller beware. You have every right to send it back -- even all the way back to Japan -- if a flaw was not disclosed in the description or in the pictures.

Wayne · Apr 17, 2021

Grim Tuesday said:
I don't think so. On ebay, it is seller beware. You have every right to send it back -- even all the way back to Japan -- if a flaw was not disclosed in the description or in the pictures.

Yeah the seller really got screwed on that one.

When someone spend weeks looking for the best example of a camera out there and gets a misrepresented one with fungus and numerous bellows pinholes, the fact that they can return it hardly makes up for their wasted time.

AnselMortensen · Apr 18, 2021

Fortunately, Schneideritis only affects resale value, not IQ, and I don't plan on selling it, so no big whoop. Not worth the hassle of returning it.

Randy Stewart · May 4, 2021

I used to buy a lot of gear off ebay, and I bought a few cameras from Japanese dealers,the last being about two years ago. I;ve have excellent buys, condition regularly being better than advertised. However,more recent posts are numerous and suggest that Japan-ebay is may be scraping the bottom of the barrel for supply, and sellers have turned to the dark side of the force. In this case, you have been had, no matter what the price. That wobbly lens /standard situation implies damage that may not be corrected. Bellows with pin holes can be taped (sloppy) or sealed with liquid rubber (better), but it is probably dying as we discuss the matter. Replacement can be had, but not at a price which would justify doing so on top of purchase and other repairs. So, send it back, Now.Pearl III cameras are not as common as dirt, but they are not rare either. You do not need to start with a piece of junk to rebuild.

Radost · May 17, 2021

Dan Daniel said:
If it has that many holes, it will keep developing holes.

Send it back.

Talk to Ebay about getting the seller to pay postage. If it wasn't as described, you have rights.

And never buy something from Japan with less than 8 plus marks. I thought everyone knew this.....

What is “8 plus mark”?

Wayne · May 17, 2021

Radost said:
What is “8 plus mark”?

Its sarcasm. Japanese sellers say stuff about their camera gear's condition like

Very Good +++
Mint+++++
Exc ++++++++++++++++++++++

to mask the fact they are none of the above.

removed account4 · May 17, 2021

you can usually fix bellows holes with a little India ink mixed with pva / Elmers glue
the shutter can be cla'd by most repair people.
some people have wonderful experiences with certo6. if you have your heart set on folders
he might be a source that is in the use / close to home. you might also look into
getting a mamiya folder ( post war ) they are beautiful cameras and don't sell for too much $$
just make sure the pressure plate do-dad is in the camera, they sometimes get sold without them..

Randy Stewart · May 23, 2021

It seems the days of Japanese dealers as a class being conservative and transparent in their ebay listings are mostly gone. They now seem to suffer the same falsehoods and sneaky photos which have characterized US sellers for decades. And given the hassle and cost of a return, assuming that you can get one, Japanese buys present a fairly high risk of doing business. My last ebay purchase was a selenium light meter presented as completely checks and working perfectly; it was a broken piece of crap and hadn't worked in decades. The US seller retreated into Trump-style "alternative facts", and for $15 it wasn't worth my time to run over the hurdles ebay installs to force a return. On the other hand, my last major purchase was from a Japanese dealer I'd never used before for a Fuji GA645Zi, described as used but not abused, which I got for a very low price. What I received was a fully accessorized Like New camera, fully functional. The shutter counter shows that it had probabry never had a roll of film put though it. So, go figure. (I know - $425 plus nominal shipping)

DGS · May 27, 2021

Most cameras I buy from Japan come from Jeff Guthrie at Japan Vintage Camera. His cameras are all overhauled by him, accurately described, reasonably priced, and ship for free worldwide. He has both a web site and etsy store. He also has several YouTube videos on Japanese cameras.

Excited I got my first MF folder -- but there are issues

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