Exact workflow for Xtol Stock ?

Hi,

I recently switched from HC110 to Xtol. I have chosen using stock Xtol but I think I missed some infos. Here is my question :

I use a 2x135 paterson tank and kodak recommends to add 15% of developping times after 5 rolls so my conclusions are :
- 1-> 5 : normal
- 6 -> 10 : normal+15%
- 11 -> 15 : precedent time + 15%

The correct amount of liquid for this tank is ±600ml. But if i want to fit with my calculs should i prepare only 600ml of solution or i can use a solution of 1L. I've done the later method and i found that if I use 600ml from 1L. solution for each development, the 6 -> 15 rolls are quite overdeveloped. Is that normal ?

Another question, since I'm using 2x135 tank, the third batch fall into the first and the second timing. What time should I choose, normal or +15% ?

I'm sorry for the language, english is not my native tongue but I really hope you can fill the gap in my workflow.

Thank you

Alan

If you are going to use a full-strength solution, rather than 1 shot with 1 to 1 dilution, a better method would be to use the replenishment workflow.
You divide your freshly mixed solution into two parts, a working solution and a replenishment solution. After each roll you discard a portion and replace it with fresh from your replenishment stock. By doing this, your development times remain consistent.
There are a number of threads on using Xtol replenished, and it is also covered in the data sheet. You can replenish indefinitely, when you get to the end of your replenishment solution, you replace it with a fresh batch.

bdial said:

If you are going to use a full-strength solution, rather than 1 shot with 1 to 1 dilution, a better method would be to use the replenishment workflow.
You divide your freshly mixed solution into two parts, a working solution and a replenishment solution. After each roll you discard a portion and replace it with fresh from your replenishment stock. By doing this, your development times remain consistent.
There are a number of threads on using Xtol replenished, and it is also covered in the data sheet. You can replenish indefinitely, when you get to the end of your replenishment solution, you replace it with a fresh batch.

Click to expand...

Replenished XTOL is much more cost effective and provides better results.

I get why it's more consistent and I think it's the method I'll adopt with 70ml per roll in the first time.
But I don't think it's much more cost effective, it seems to be almost twice cheaper with my first workflow :

Adapt development times :
600/15 = 40 ml/roll

Replenishement :
70ml/roll

Akzidenz said:

I get why it's more consistent and I think it's the method I'll adopt with 70ml per roll in the first time.
But I don't think it's much more cost effective, it seems to be almost twice cheaper with my first workflow :

Adapt development times :
600/15 = 40 ml/roll

Replenishement :
70ml/roll

Click to expand...

with your original workflow ( non replenished )
there might be problems down the road with bromide build up
( i think that is what it is, smarter people will know more cause i am admittedly clueless ! )
what happens is whatever it is that builds up streaks + messes with your film after a while,
replenishing is kind of like taking out the trash to keep everyting nice-nice.
after all, you have spent all the time finding stuff to dedicate to film ( photograph )
why give it the chance to get screwed up ?
to be honest ive never heard of using a developer like xtol non replenished, although i do use caffenol 130
non replenished, and i've gotten it to last for 5-6months but ... it starts to freak me out after a while so
i get rid of some of it and add new to the seasoned batch...
and i really don't use that developer except for "personal work" so that if it is screwed up i don't care,
if it was for a client or friends or family ... i'd use something else.
they say replenished xtol is like manna from the heavens ... might not be worth messing with the manna

john
ps. dont' forget to have fun !

Akzidenz said:

Hi,

I recently switched from HC110 to Xtol. I have chosen using stock Xtol but I think I missed some infos. Here is my question :

I use a 2x135 paterson tank and kodak recommends to add 15% of developping times after 5 rolls so my conclusions are :
- 1-> 5 : normal
- 6 -> 10 : normal+15%
- 11 -> 15 : precedent time + 15%

The correct amount of liquid for this tank is ±600ml. But if i want to fit with my calculs should i prepare only 600ml of solution or i can use a solution of 1L. I've done the later method and i found that if I use 600ml from 1L. solution for each development, the 6 -> 15 rolls are quite overdeveloped. Is that normal ?

Another question, since I'm using 2x135 tank, the third batch fall into the first and the second timing. What time should I choose, normal or +15% ?

I'm sorry for the language, english is not my native tongue but I really hope you can fill the gap in my workflow.

Thank you

Alan

Click to expand...

Hi Alan,

Your english is good!

I agree with bdial and would recommend doing what you have to do to avoid changing your development times. I used Xtol happily for 5 years or so, but I never replenished it, I just used it as a one-shot developer each time. It's not expensive here ($10 makes 5 liters) so I just used it fresh and avoided the calculations you've listed, which for me would mean one more thing to track and potentially get wrong. I like being able to use Xtol stock or maybe 1+1 or 1+2 depending on the film and exposure, and I also might want to increase or reduce development time (say to control hi lights). It starts getting complicated if I add that additional x% of time for replenishment.

The Kodak instructions for X-Tol stock specify that one litre of developer has the capacity to develop 15 rolls if you use that time compensation regime.
If you are only working with 600 ml, that would mean a capacity for just nine rolls.
In either case, you need to discard the developer after you have used up its capacity.
Assuming you are using it in one litre batches, you can expect to develop 5x15 = 75 rolls with a 5 litre batch.
In a replenishment regime, you can expect to develop 5 litres/70 ml = ~ 70 rolls with a 5 litre batch.
Essentially the same cost/roll.
You do see a difference in cost if you develop one shot. With your 600 ml tank if you use X-Tol 1+1 you can expect to develop approximately 34 rolls with a 5 litre batch.
Personally I don't like using a time compensation regime and do like using a replenishment regime.

Thanks all for your answers. I think i will go for the replenishment method.
The idea of getting a consistent working solution and only one timing parameter to refine are winning arguments.

But there are nevertheless some consecutive questions :

- what about pushing process ?
Does it take more than 70ml to replenish a solutions that served to push a film ? I suppose that if my ratio normal/pushed is 90/10 it's not an issue but since I push 100% of my film by at least 1 stop, I should be concerned by that point isn't it ?

- what about the film stock that is processed ?
If I set my standard time to Trix, there are few film stocks that use way more time to develop. Is this something that I should be concerning about ?

- lastly, I process ± 80 films a year. Should I fully renew the working solution once a year, once a semester or is there a convenient way to insure the consistency of the solution ?



Thanks all, I learned a lot

Akzidenz said:

Thanks all for your answers. I think i will go for the replenishment method.
The idea of getting a consistent working solution and only one timing parameter to refine are winning arguments.

But there are nevertheless some consecutive questions :

- what about pushing process ?
Does it take more than 70ml to replenish a solutions that served to push a film ? I suppose that if my ratio normal/pushed is 90/10 it's not an issue but since I push 100% of my film by at least 1 stop, I should be concerned by that point isn't it ?

- what about the film stock that is processed ?
If I set my standard time to Trix, there are few film stocks that use way more time to develop. Is this something that I should be concerning about ?

- lastly, I process ± 80 films a year. Should I fully renew the working solution once a year, once a semester or is there a convenient way to insure the consistency of the solution ?



Thanks all, I learned a lot

Click to expand...

If you push process everything, that explains why you were seeing dense negatives.
The 70ml per roll replenishment suggestion is a suggestion. In a fully controlled environment you would use a densitometer and control strips to fine tune how much replenishment to use. In a more common environment, you gauge the replenishment rate by paying close attention to your negatives over time. You may very well end up with a standard replenishment rate that is 60 ml, or 80 ml, or ???
I adjust my development time to the film involved and the ambient temperature. I do all my developing at room temperature - it is one of the advantages of using a replenishment regime.
If I don't develop any film during a particular week, I discard my usual replenishment amount for one roll (70 ml) from the working solution and mix in 70 ml from my replenishment stock.
I filter/decant my working solution each time I use it. It keeps it looking nice . Otherwise a bit of greyish stuff starts to build up - gelatin I expect.
Normally there is no need to discard the working solution - people keep it running for years!
What you do have to watch is the replenishment solution. After six months, it is prudent to either discard it (the balance remaining at least) or from time to time check its activity. X-Tol doesn't give any warning when it loses activity, so developing a scrap of exposed leader to check that it is still active makes sense.
One of the great things about X-Tol is that it is both inexpensive and has a very low environmental "footprint". If you have to discard a small portion from time to time, it is not a disaster.