Even Leica warns to avoid burning holes in the shutter!

Huss · Jun 6, 2016

Leica M5 manual, page 26:

Dead Link Removed

"Leica lenses act like burning glasses if they face upwards in full sunlight for long periods. You must therefore protect the housing and the shutter by putting on the lens cap or keeping the camera in a case or in the shade"

Leica M7 manual, page 120 (for English)

http://www.overgaard.dk/pdf/M7_Instructions_en.pdf

"A lens works like a burning glass when bright sunlight shines on the front of the camera. The camera should never, therefore, be put aside without protection against strong sunlight. Damage to the interior of the camera can be prevented by using the lens cover and keeping the camera in the shade (or directly in the case)."

railwayman3 · Jun 6, 2016

The same thing will happen with SLR's and any camera with a focal plane shutter.....with an SLR the focussing screen will be scorched.

Huss · Jun 6, 2016

railwayman3 said:
The same thing will happen with SLR's and any camera with a focal plane shutter.....with an SLR the focussing screen will be scorched.

Agreed. There are a few that are in denial and claim it's an old wives' tale, no matter that there are many that have suffered from this.

The point of this is as a teaching moment as this message comes directly from Leica.

ColColt · Jun 6, 2016

I've had SLR's since 1977 and Leica RF since 1980 and never suffered this phenomena...maybe I've just been lucky. I walked all over the 67 acres of the 1982 World's Fair for hours several times a week in the sun and paid no attention to where or which direction the sun was with an F2 uncapped around my neck.

"Leica lenses act like burning glasses if they face upwards in full sunlight for long periods." I think that's the key. Who does that, however?

railwayman3 · Jun 6, 2016

ColColt said:
I've had SLR's since 1977 and Leica RF since 1980 and never suffered this phenomena...maybe I've just been lucky. I walked all over the 67 acres of the 1982 World's Fair for hours several times a week in the sun and paid no attention to where or which direction the sun was with an F2 uncapped around my neck.

"Leica lenses act like burning glasses if they face upwards in full sunlight for long periods." I think that's the key. Who does that, however?

If you're walking and moving around, the image of the sun is probably not going to be in any one place on the shutter curtain or focussing screen long enough to cause serious damage.
(And, I have, in the past, seen cameras sitting in the windows of photo dealers in hot direct sun with uncapped lenses.......)

Theo Sulphate · Jun 6, 2016

Based on this issue being discussed in an earlier thread, I have just conducted my own test.

Conditions:
- bright sun, clear skies, 87F
- dry newspaper, 1 week old
- Leitz Summicron 50/2

Procedure:
- focused lens at infinity, f/2, focus sun on paper ~10 sec
- focused lens at infinity, f/16, focus sun on paper ~10 sec

Results:
- no burning

My previous belief that the lens will burn a hole in the shutter appears to be wrong, although I cannot explain at this time why.

Leica doesn't explain what "long periods" are, perhaps I didn't hold focus long enough.

ColColt · Jun 6, 2016

I do know a magnifying glass will do the trick as we use to zap ants that way as kids.

daleeman · Jun 6, 2016

Lenses are made to transmit light and I understand where Leica is comming from, but as I know it early lenses could haze or fungus up if they were capped and hidden away. Humidity also playes a part too.

My father's IIIf ST Red Dial had his Elmar 50 pn it forever, go to camera and the curtains are fine. His 90mm lens was hardly ever used and it stayed in the bubble getting hazed up.

So my thoughts are run sun light through your lenses anytime and if your concerned about the shutter, use a body cap.

michr · Jun 6, 2016

The first Leica I ever bought has this problem. I wish I'd known to look for it before I bought it. However if my Arguses or Kiev 4M ever develops this issue we'll have worse problems than a little sunburn. I see no reason to abuse one's tools, but a camera shouldn't need to be treated like a delicate flower.

Sirius Glass · Jun 6, 2016

Victor Hasselblad first used metal shutters because Leica had had these problems with cloth shutters. However Hasselblad had reliability problems with the metal shutters and so he started using lens shutters in the Series V cameras.

gone · Jun 6, 2016

It can happen, but you would need to leave the camera somewhere w/ the lens stopped down and pointing toward the sun for a spell. I used to ride my bike in Arizona in 110+ noon sun w/ the cameras strapped on my shoulder and thrown around my back toward the sun for sometimes an hour ride. The camera would get so hot I got welts on my back through my shirt. Never any problems, and the film was never fogged either. This was w/ Leicas, SLR's, etc. No lens cap on the cameras, ever. I don't like lens caps. A filter and a hood is all that is needed.

mnemosyne · Jun 7, 2016

A couple of holes in the cheese have to line up for it to happen, but it does happen occasionally. What is much more relevant though in practical terms is that you should not change lenses with your Leica in bright sunlight, as the shutter cloth is not 100% light tight when no lens is mounted. It is very easy to fog film this way (BTDT).

benjiboy · Jun 7, 2016

I makes me wonder why such expensive cameras still have rubberised silk shutter curtains instead of the Titanium foil ones that top quality pro S.L.R.'s like the Nikon F and Canon F1 series have .

Theo Sulphate · Jun 7, 2016

benjiboy said:
I makes me wonder why such expensive cameras still have rubberised silk shutter curtains instead of the Titanium foil ones that top quality pro S.L.R.'s like the Nikon F and Canon F1 series have .

Good question. The Nikon F and Canon F1 shutters have certainly proven their reliability and durability.

Maybe the rubberized silk shutter is inherently quieter.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jun 7, 2016

ColColt said:
I've had SLR's since 1977 and Leica RF since 1980 and never suffered this phenomena...maybe I've just been lucky. I walked all over the 67 acres of the 1982 World's Fair for hours several times a week in the sun and paid no attention to where or which direction the sun was with an F2 uncapped around my neck.

"Leica lenses act like burning glasses if they face upwards in full sunlight for long periods." I think that's the key. Who does that, however?

You've just been lucky. I know sadly from experience. It only took a minute or less...

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 7, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Based on this issue being discussed in an earlier thread, I have just conducted my own test.

Conditions:
- bright sun, clear skies, 87F
- dry newspaper, 1 week old
- Leitz Summicron 50/2

Procedure:
- focused lens at infinity, f/2, focus sun on paper ~10 sec
- focused lens at infinity, f/16, focus sun on paper ~10 sec

Results:
- no burning

My previous belief that the lens will burn a hole in the shutter appears to be wrong, although I cannot explain at this time why.

Leica doesn't explain what "long periods" are, perhaps I didn't hold focus long enough.

(Bold emphasis in previous post made by me). There in lies the problem. They don't quantify how long the direct sunlight must be focused on the shutter for it to get damaged.
It's anyone's guess. Ten seconds? Ten minutes? Ten hours? No way to tell.

Ko.Fe. · Jun 7, 2016

benjiboy said:
I makes me wonder why such expensive cameras still have rubberised silk shutter curtains instead of the Titanium foil ones that top quality pro S.L.R.'s like the Nikon F and Canon F1 series have .

Are you talking about RF Leica cameras?
I wouldn't want this foil thing into to my Leicas and FED even for free...

And I don't think it is what easy to burn it with f2.8 or f2. I've done it in few minutes and I know another person who has done it as well. But we were both shooting for same contest where images has to be taken with J-3 wide open at 1.5. He burned one hole in Leica M curtain and I have it in FED-2.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jun 7, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
(Bold emphasis in previous post made by me). There in lies the problem. They don't quantify how long the direct sunlight must be focused on the shutter for it to get damaged.
It's anyone's guess. Ten seconds? Ten minutes? Ten hours? No way to tell.

As I said above, it happened to me. Leica M body. No longer than a minute tops. It DOES happen. REAL WORLD example. Not theory. Trust me.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 7, 2016

Richard S. (rich815) said:
As I said above, it happened to me. Leica M body. No longer than a minute tops. It DOES happen. REAL WORLD example. Not theory. Trust me.

In no way am I saying you are wrong.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jun 7, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
In no way am I saying you are wrong.

No worries. Just sort of answering the "It's anyone's guess. Ten seconds? Ten minutes? Ten hours? No way to tell." comment....

tedr1 · Jun 7, 2016

I can ignite paper using an optically fast magnifying glass but not with an f2 50mm coated Canon 35mm lens. The worst-case conditions are: fast lens; lens wide open; wide angle lens (increases the likelihood that the sun will enter the field of view); focused middle distance (infra-red is focused a little further from the lens than visible light). One confounding factor is the infra-red transmission of the glass, it is variable and unquantified. Results will vary.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 7, 2016

tedr1 said:
I can ignite paper using an optically fast magnifying glass but not with an f2 50mm coated Canon 35mm lens. The worst-case conditions are: fast lens; lens wide open; wide angle lens (increases the likelihood that the sun will enter the field of view); focused middle distance (infra-red is focused a little further from the lens than visible light). One confounding factor is the infra-red transmission of the glass, it is variable and unquantified. Results will vary.

So something like a 90mm Elmar with a hood is starting to sound really great...

ColColt · Jun 7, 2016

I'm sure it can and has happened but I have to wonder about journalist like HCB who traveled this entire globe during his career in all manner of places hot and cold and never recall reading about this problem in his books or elsewhere. Since he wasn't the kind that liked "gadgets", as it was put, not even a hood, I have to wonder also if he ever used a cap.

Arklatexian · Jun 7, 2016

Huss said:
Leica M5 manual, page 26:

Dead Link Removed

"Leica lenses act like burning glasses if they face upwards in full sunlight for long periods. You must therefore protect the housing and the shutter by putting on the lens cap or keeping the camera in a case or in the shade"

Leica M7 manual, page 120 (for English)

http://www.overgaard.dk/pdf/M7_Instructions_en.pdf

"A lens works like a burning glass when bright sunlight shines on the front of the camera. The camera should never, therefore, be put aside without protection against strong sunlight. Damage to the interior of the camera can be prevented by using the lens cover and keeping the camera in the shade (or directly in the case)."

I would imagine that Leica would also warn you about dropping your Leica into the oceans. gulfs or any other salt water. I would think that anyone who spent the money for a Leica, new or used, would take care not to burn a hole in its shutter, even accidently. It certainly is no good for any camera, focal-plane shutter or not....Regards!

cliveh · Jun 7, 2016

Leica are just trying to cover themselves about every eventuality. A bit like don't put your cat or dog in the microwave.

Even Leica warns to avoid burning holes in the shutter!

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency