European HC-110

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Donald Qualls

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Covington Innovations shows the Euro HC-110 to be essentially just stock solution -- so if you want to use an odd dilution that isn't on their chart, and they don't give it as a dilution from stock, just add the concentrate and water together, divide by 4, and then subtract one for the concentrate again. For instance, if you want to try someone's recommended 1+49 dilution, you'd actually use 1+11.5 ((1+49)/4 - 1).

Also worthy of note, the Euro HC-110 doesn't keep like USA concentrate "syrup" -- it's stock solution, and has a lifetime in an opened bottle of about a month, or up to three months with air exclusion measures. Given it's only 500 ml, that's probably not that big a deal unless you usually use high dilutions; even at Dilution F, which I use a lot, your bottle would make 10 liters of working solution which would develop 40 rolls at minimum liquid usage, which is less than a month's consumption for a lot of photographers. For me, that's about a year...
 

Magnus

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The European concentrate of HC110 is weaker than the US version.

Do you mix it directly from the bottle into the amount needed or do you still have to prepare a working soltion which can be further diluted upon use ?

I have always worked with the US version, now I found out (the tough way) that I have the Euro version.

I use HC110 at"H" which is 2 x "B"

... This change confuses the cr*p out of me, I would be most gratefull if somebody could help here.... Thanks...

Magnus
 

bobfowler

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HC-110 dilution tables

I have 2 tables for HC-100 dilutions on one of my websites. One table is for the US version, one for the Euro version. Both are for mixing directly from syrup, not from stock.
 

Magnus

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Thanks Bob ....

I spent close to 18 months in New Jersey (Phillipsburg), I love the place, I love the people... I was really sad to leave.
I have travelled and lived and worked throughout the world, I consider NJ as one of my favorite places
 

Magnus

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Donald,

thanks for your reply, you speak of the "keep" qualities of Euro HC110, only 1 month in an opened bottle ? ... Thats a bit of a bummer, is there no way to extend ?

I don't go through 1 liter of HC110 in a months time, at dilution H this would mean 10 liters or 40 films ... hmmm

Any idea of why the US and Euro HC110's are so different ?
 

NikoSperi

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I have to say, green as I may be, I have never seen "European" HC110 for sale in Europe... I like my HC110 straight and strong, like my... Honestly, I'e never seen anything other than straight HC110 for sale in France or Italy or UK.
 

Magnus

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Niko, same with me, I just purchased liter bottles of the stuff and it was american.... all of sudden I get the Euro-Mix .... obviously causing the screw.up of 5 rolls
 

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All the HC-110 I`ve bought here in Norway has been the US. kind.
Diluting 1:31 and 1:62 directly from the bottle with great results. :smile:
 

NikoSperi

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Magnus said:
Niko, same with me, I just purchased liter bottles of the stuff and it was american.... all of sudden I get the Euro-Mix .... obviously causing the screw.up of 5 rolls
Ouch! Out of curiosity and so we can benefit from your loss... doesn't it look different? The goop, I mean; I would imagine it to be much more liquid. I'll keep my eyes open on my next bottles.
 

Magnus

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It's in th code (product code)

And ofcourse the label which is partly in french.

But then again who reads the labels of a developer you'v used 100 times ?
 

NikoSperi

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But is it still just as goo-ey?
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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Magnus said:
thanks for your reply, you speak of the "keep" qualities of Euro HC110, only 1 month in an opened bottle ? ... Thats a bit of a bummer, is there no way to extend ?

I don't go through 1 liter of HC110 in a months time, at dilution H this would mean 10 liters or 40 films ... hmmm

Any idea of why the US and Euro HC110's are so different ?

There certainly is a way to extend the life. First, that 10 L of working solution is enough for, at most, 40 rolls of film; might be as little as 20 if you develop 120. And with measures to minimize the amount of air closed into the bottle with the stock solution, you should be able to stretch it for up to 3 months. The *best* method, IMO, is to get some small glass vials with high quality cap seals that just barely hold 25 ml; when you open the 500 ml bottle, divide up all the solution into the vials. Each vial then contains enough of the original liquid to mix 250 ml of Dilution H. Each vial, with little or no air space, should have a shelf life of at least three months, but it's probably prudent to test the working solution after mixing each time -- just drop the clipped 35 mm leader into the graduate, and watch for it start turning visibly gray in 2-3 minutes.

Bad news is, the vials will probably cost more than the bottle of HC-110 did.

Other methods that have worked for people are to drop glass marbles into the bottle to replace the volume as you draw off to mix your working solution, so as to keep little or no air space in the original bottle, or to spray a shot of "canned air" or butane lighter fuel into the bottle before closing it, to displace the air. Marbles are sold cheaply as children's toys, at least in the USA, Australia, and UK; can't say for other parts of the world. Butane is cheap some places, regulated and expensive others, and is flammable, hence slightly hazardous to use.

As to why the Euro HC-110 is made already at working solution strength, I would have to presume it's a matter of either environmental or shipping regulations in effect in some or all EU countries -- Kodak certainly didn't do it just because they felt like it, because it surely costs them something to produce the same developer in two different forms, and the form you have is (in my opinion) inferior to the form we get here in the USA, specifically due to the difference in keeping qualities -- ours keeps nearly forever as concentrate because there's no water in it, so the developing agents aren't susceptible to oxidation.

As others have pointed out, the US version is available in many European locations, so it's also possible that the 500 ml "stock solution" version is being or has been replaced by the American style concentrate, or vice versa, or that both are distributed (or that they're distributed in different locations). Here, if I buy the concentrate in a bottle bigger than 500 ml, I get it with a label "for commercial photo labs only" or something similar -- even though it's the exact same stuff inside, and quite a bit cheaper per ml.

In any case, if you take appropriate measures to keep air away from the HC-110 you have, it should last long enough to let you use it up instead of failing before you finish it...
 

Magnus

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Donald, thanks.... I have just purchased a number of 30ml bottles and work with marbles as well. As a side thing I will try and find the US HC110 here in europe. I could just give up on HC' but I really enjoy it's capabilities .... By the way this marble thing is pretty nifty .... hope my 15 month old son won't find one and choke ... :smile:

Kindest regards and greetings from,

Magnus
 

Maine-iac

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NikoSperi said:
I have to say, green as I may be, I have never seen "European" HC110 for sale in Europe... I like my HC110 straight and strong, like my... Honestly, I'e never seen anything other than straight HC110 for sale in France or Italy or UK.

While I can't speak for the situation in France now, three years ago, when I left Paris after a decade there, the HC110 was definitely the European diluted version. That change happened while I was there, perhaps in about 1996 or thereabouts. I had just finished a bottle of HC110 (US concentration) and went to my local FNAC to purchse a new bottle. I could only get the 500 ml size, so I took it home, and mixed my usual Dilution B (1:31) and got clear negs with no image. Two 120 rolls I had just shot ruined. So I ran a couple of test rolls and got the same result, except on some of the over-exposed (as a result of bracketing) negs, I could just make out a very faint image. That clued me to look at the developer, and lo and behold, sure enough, the dilution was different from the US version. The concentrate is weaker, and it doesn't keep as well. That 500 ml bottle went bad inside of four months.

So unless they've gone back to selling the US version in the past three years, I concur with Donald's analysis of the European version. I have an unopened bottle still on my shelves, and it definitely calls for dilution in the strength he has analyzed.

Larry
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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Magnus said:
By the way this marble thing is pretty nifty .... hope my 15 month old son won't find one and choke ... :smile:

I'd suggest keeping the marbles with the photo chemicals, and keeping both of those in a locked cabinet when not in actual use, for the next 8-10 years -- then teach the little guy to develop his own film. :smile:
 

Magnus

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I sent an Email to my supplier about the Euro vs. US version of HC110, he phoned me up, understood the situation and sent me 4 half liter bottles of HC110 in the US version, no extra charge.... this is what I call good service ... apparantly he hadn't noticed the change himself ....

So I now have the euro version and the Us version again which blindly enables me to use the B or the H solution..... all my glass containers are focussed upon HC110 US version ... so I'm a happy man ....

I just developed 5 rolls of Tri-x in HC110 ... and what a wonderfull developer this is, it makes me wonder about all these discussion about these "exotic" newcomers ... anyway each to his own....

Thanks all ....
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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Glad to hear things are straightened out, Magnus. IMO, HC-110 is as close to a "do everything" developer as you'll ever find. I've used dilutions from A (for a monobath formulation) to G, and the only problem I've ever had was when I misread my syringe and mixed teaspoons in place of milliliters (which got me developer that was 5x the correct strength -- my one stop pull became about a three stop push!).

BTW, one way to use up the Euro version you have -- it makes a perfectly fine paper developer at Dilution A, though it tends to give a colder tone than Dektol or most "neutral" tone developers.
 
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