Estate Sale.

Recently, I went to an estate sale of a friend and former Portland Photographers Forum member. There his family had all his books, magazines, photography gear and photographs up for sale. At first all this didn’t bother me. The family had to clear out all his stuff and get his home ready to sale. But afterward I began to think of all my stuff. What would happen to my magazine, books, gear and photographs when I’m no longer on this earth?
Most of my magazines I donate to either PPF or I give to schools that have an active photography department or club. I want to think the students there appreciate seeing what is being done in their field of interest. I remember being so when my school would get a cache of magazines. I grabbed what I wanted and left to study.

My books, many of them are signed by the photographers, John Sexton, Ansel Adams, Ruth Bernhard, Christopher Burkett, Bruce Barnbaum, Brett Weston and so on. I’m attached to my books greatly. I must share with my family that either keep the books for themselves or give them to those same schools that have active photography programs. But they must never to sold!

My photographs? Well, I hope that my family will divide the images of what they like and do as they wish with the rest. I had met one photographer who stated that he plans to destroy all his prints and negs. He’s already done one part of his plan. He followed his friend Brett Weston and burned all his negs. Only after scanning some of them for digital output. But his prints will be left to his remaining family.
I have also collected lots of prints from other photographers starting with a small Henry Gilpin “Highway 1” print and followed by lots of noted and some not so know photographers. Each print speaks to me and I usually pull out my collection and remember why I bought this print or traded for it or was given to me. Again, I hope my family will do the same as I have listed before. Share among them selves and then donate the rest to this time a local art museum.

My darkroom gear, I love it but its really not apart of me. I hope my family will sell some of it and donate the rest. How can one be attached to a print washer or trays or an enlarger.

Now comes the real crutch of what I thought at my friends’ estate sale, His photographic gear. I don’t know about you but I consider my cameras more then mere tools or a means of photographing. They have a life. They are apart of me. My Wisner 4x5 Technical Field camera and I have traveled around the northern west coast. My RB67 has been with me since my early days of school. I remember seeing it in a glass case at my then local photography retailer in Palo Alto, Calif and it said “Buy me. You won’t regret it” The salesman who happen to be one of the owners of the store must have over heard the RB calling to me. He let me work out a deal to pay in installments and six months the camera was mine and I have never regretted it.

It’s my hope that my family never sale my cameras. I hope that my family looks at them and remembers their old man and his adventures with his cameras and the neat photographs. I hope that they will share stories to their families and on down the line.

No, my cameras are special to me. Are yours to you? Do you understand what I’m saying or do you think I’m a crazy person who probably worries too much for his own good about things when I’m good and gone. What do you plan for your stuff? Do you have a plan of action when your not? Share.

I plan to place this thread on other photo websites.

good questions, but this is what a will is for. draw one up and be very specific about what you want and where everything is to go.

yes i have a plan and it has been written out and has been witnessed and nortarized.

ann said:

good questions, but this is what a will is for. draw one up and be very specific about what you want and where everything is to go.

yes i have a plan and it has been written out and has been witnessed and nortarized.

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The written plan is great, but be sure to check with a lawyer in your jurisdiction about how best to make sure that it is binding on your estate. The rules vary from country to country, province to province, and state to state.

Matt

I have often thought about these questions myself. I know there are far too few people who would appreciate a fully equipped darkroom, books/magazines, prints, studio equipment and cameras to put them to use.

written plan meaning a will, that has been prepared by a lawyer. that is why i used the word will in the first sentence.

There is something even better than a will, and it works perfectly in this case. A will is to divide an estate according to your wishes. Once divided up, each person can do with your cameras as they see fit. If you really want to ensure that your cameras never get sold, you can work up a Trust. Ask around your legal circles where you live to find someone who can draw up a "Living Trust". A Living Trust is very much like a corporation. Only it's sole job and responsiblity is to maintain assets over many generations. It is how the richy rich people of the world (the old money people) stay rich generation after generation. There is no inheritance tax. There is no inheritence except the trustees and beneficiaries. You create the trust, and you transfer ownership of your things to the trust. In the trust are bylaws, just like the corporations. In the bylaws you specify what can and what cannot be sold. Then you bind those bylaws in the actual definition of the trust itself. This will make it something that cannot be undone by any trustee(s) in the future. Then when you pass this earth, a new trustee(s) will maintain the trust's assets. It's actually very simple, but generally this is something a lawyer does (the devil in the detail). However, I think there are websites that also allow you to define a trust based upon the verbiage supplied by lawyers. But I think those are all boilerplate mass assemblies. You probably want a custom job. Maybe it costs you $600, or 2-3 hours of a lawyer's time.

At the risk of sounding cruel.....this emotional distress that we feel about the future of our prized possessions once we have passed on will only bother us while we are alive. Maybe what we need to do for the benefit of our surviving family and friends is to NOT impose this distress on them. Let them do as they wish. If it's the money they want out of them, then so be it. We won't care....we'll be dead. If you know someone who will benefit from or derive enjoyment from being given something you own, or if you are more aware of how to get the best value for your possessions than your family is, then as already suggested....make a will.

cheers eh?

John

I hoped my son-in-law would want my darkroom stuff, but I've tried to give him 3 enlargers that were given to me, and I couldn't unload. He can surely have my Hassy, Nikons, and the Holga he gave me one Christmas. You all know I'm no Ansel Adams, but there are images of mine that I really like. *But* I won't need them where I'm going, and so I don't really care if they're not "valued" after I'm gone for what they're worth to me now.

My husband is so kind and patient with my clutter. I hope he'll enjoy cleaning it all out, if I go first. I think he will (enjoy cleaning out the *stuff*), and it's fine with me.

For me the big question is how much of a mess am I leaving my wife. I know how hard it was to get some of the really big pieces of gear into my darkroom, like the plate burner and the sink. It required some major disassembly, removing some doors and casing, etc. I would imagine she'd find it a real chore. Hopefully that's 35 years away, but it's still something that occurs to me. The rest of it? The dozens of cameras, cases, lighting is just 'stuff'. Whatever. The prints would probably be get split among the kids.
N

I feel about the same as Neal except I'm closer to the "not leaving much of a mess" stage than he is. It's most probable that my wife would leave the darkroom as it is and would probably put all of my equipment in it and leave it for my son to figure out. He has used the darkroom for developing and printing and is familiar with the equipment and what it is used for. I should get a list of what I have and indicated what I think it is worth, a ball park amount, and what if any historical or rareness some pieces have. Some old cameras that have been restored to original condition and lenses that are in excellent shape along with shutters etc. should be noted as having special value. All of my prints go to my wife and she will decide what to do with them and who get them. When I'm dead, I'm dead, I won't need the equipment or the prints to look at, it would be nice if someone could enjoy them though.

ann said:

written plan meaning a will, that has been prepared by a lawyer. that is why i used the word will in the first sentence.

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ann:

I thought that you most likely meant that your list was actually contained in your Will, but wasn't totally sure.

One of the things that I quite often encounter (I'm an estate lawyer) is the belief that if one has a valid Will, and then makes a separate list of items and wishes, that the wishes contained in the list have the same legal effect as the Will, and that they bind the estate.

The rules as to whether or not such a list does form part of a binding and valid Will are not simple, and vary from place to place. As an example, you refer to your Will being written out, witnessed and notarized. Where I am, notarization is not necessary and would have no effect.

Also, with respect to trusts (living or otherwise) the usefulness of them varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. They are best suited to assets that produce income, as they can cost money to maintain. In my jurisdiction they aren't well suited to something like a collection of photographic equipment or even images, unless that equipment and those images have either a clear and increasing commercial value, or an historic value (in which case a charitable trust might be appropriate).

As usual, it would be my advice to consult someone local who has expertise in the laws that apply to you.

I would point out, however, that it may be the case that the greatest benefit would arise from just making your wishes clear to those around you, as well as making it easier for them to understand the value of what you have. Once you are gone, it will be too late for you to pass that information on, and there is nothing sadder than a spouse or child or friend who is left with the responsibility of dealing with your photographs and equipment, as well as the question: "What would _______ have wanted me to do with this?"

Matt

John Bartley said:

At the risk of sounding cruel.....this emotional distress that we feel about the future of our prized possessions once we have passed on will only bother us while we are alive. Maybe what we need to do for the benefit of our surviving family and friends is to NOT impose this distress on them. Let them do as they wish. If it's the money they want out of them, then so be it. We won't care....we'll be dead. If you know someone who will benefit from or derive enjoyment from being given something you own, or if you are more aware of how to get the best value for your possessions than your family is, then as already suggested....make a will.

cheers eh?

John

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Well said.

Don't try to force your loved ones, who appear not to share your hobby, to keep those books or cameras "forever" as a memorial to you. They will remember you, and choose mementos, as they feel appropriate. To say they can never sell something, is to create a terrible burden for them. I mean this kindly.

-Laura

I've just spent a week cleaning out the home of a deceased relative, one who must have had the same genes as I do for keeping too much stuff. What a mess. It does concern me that my wife would need to dispose of my toys and likely have to do it at give away prices. I've used and collected some really nice gear over the years. If there was any warning of my passage to the other side, I would probably either sell of give most of my gear away. Having to dispose of my relatives' stuff, has me looking at what I need to dump. Much has been discarded as I got ready for a move. When the boxes are taken out of storage, much more will be passed on to others who have more of a need for it than I do. There was no need for me to still have tax records going back to 1980. Same goes for the size 34 jeans. If I knew my days were numbered I think I would rather enjoy passing my treasures onto others who I knew would enjoy them. Bill Barber

At a minimum collectors of 'stuff' should create a list of what they have, and include serial numbers (helpful for insurance, too). Also include what you paid for it. You could also include special instructions: if you want someone someone to have specific pieces, or how to dispose of it (auction, sale, etc.). This may not be a 'legal' solution, but can at least give an indication of what you would like to have happen to your possessions.

I can't imagine a non-photographer feeling the same as I do about keeping a bunch of cameras etc. If you really think cameras have a "life", then honor that by choosing, now, the people who will, in future, enjoy the use of the equipment when you can't. When property is not a joy, it's a burden. I don't want to inflict a burden. And I do want my cameras etc to get happy use.

C

Yesyesyesyesyes.

A ton of gear, good gear (I don't want to use the "L" word, but that's what it is) was given to me recently by an older colleague. It was an emotional moment for him, and I had to fake it because I had no use for any of it. I drop him a print a couple times a year, presumably made with his old equipment, and he is happy as hell. I will auction it when he passes and donate to charity in his name.

He went through a point in his life where there was much uncertainty. I understand that uncertainty now, and it is like putting on a different set of glasses to see the world through. Cameras are nothing more than metal, plastic and glass; not much different than the carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen we are made of.

It is my hope that by the time I die I have no family of note and am living like the Unabomber, and no one will ever find my corpse or my cameras, film, prints, etc.

If, however, I lead a somewhat normal life and die with a family that will have to get rid of my stuff, I hope it ends up in the hands of someone who will love it and use it as much as I did. However it gets there will be none of my business or my worry.

Give it away while you're alive, including to museums and libraries (for photo collections that are relevant and worthy). Otherwise, give the books and equipment to people who want it, but don't depend on your heirs to do so. Besides, it's much more fun to give it away yourself!

Rich Ullsmith said:

I drop him a print a couple times a year, presumably made with his old equipment, and he is happy as hell.

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Man, you are a good friend to him by keeping his spirits up! This is the kind of friendship that used to be, back in the good ol' days. Who says rigorous honesty is always good and wee little lies of ommission are always bad? After all, isn't that the same sort of thing as telling a young child about Santa Claus?

You can only hope but may be your family really don't want to remember you! It's sad but I don't think there is anything you or I could do about my family.

I simply hope it sells cheap, REAL cheap, way less than what it is worth and too some young kid that will take the stuff out, and shoot it till it stops going click. Heh, worst case scenario for me is that any of my family ends up with any of my gear!

If cameras are to be seen as having a life, then the worst that could happen to them is that they stop living the life of a camera, and begin to live the life of a conversation peice.

Given that most of my film and darkroom equipment was acquired for fire-sale prices at estate sales, I agree wholeheartedly with Polybun. Sell it cheap to someone who will love it and use it.

I think there is a common mistake made when someone starts saying "value." Way too many people think value refers only to a dollar amount. I feel Robert is making that mistake. He went to his friends estate sale, saw the mans stuff sell for way less than what he feels it is worth and is left with thought of "gese, thats all people think of him." He needs to realize, the value was NEVER in the gear, but was in the man and his photographs. People that run off and burn their negatives obviously just don't get it. They are in it for the money and don't want anyone else to get any from them. That is just insane. Honestly, if a person is that mad, there is not a single reason they should not be placed in an institution and seperated from the wrest of humanity.

Polybun said:

I think there is a common mistake made when someone starts saying "value." Way too many people think value refers only to a dollar amount. I feel Robert is making that mistake. He went to his friends estate sale, saw the mans stuff sell for way less than what he feels it is worth and is left with thought of "gese, thats all people think of him." He needs to realize, the value was NEVER in the gear, but was in the man and his photographs. People that run off and burn their negatives obviously just don't get it. They are in it for the money and don't want anyone else to get any from them. That is just insane. Honestly, if a person is that mad, there is not a single reason they should not be placed in an institution and seperated from the wrest of humanity.

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I disagree. I thought my friends gear was being sold too high in reality for the market. His family even thought so and lowered the prices by 30% the day I was there. I helped them pool some of the gear to be sold on Ebay and they did. Can you see where I said I thought his gear was being sold low?

I do think and believe that somethings have more value. I don't think I'm alone in this as well. Just this week, I bought a camera from a gentleman who wanted to make sure his fathers camera was going to someone who would use it and not just resale it or place it on a collector shelf. He felt his father would wanted this.

My cameras do have special meaning to me and have a certain energy that I use. Call me sentimental and I am. I do think my cameras have a special bond to me. People develop special bonds to their stuff and I do for my cameras.

I shared my thoughts about my cameras to my wife and she came up with the an idea that suits me. When I'm gone she will share the cameras with our children and what's left will be given to schools that use film photography to teach it's students. I like this a lot

As to destroying negatives. That is up to the individual photographers and I do see some of their view points. Could you or someone print from my negs the way I do? Do you see or understand how or why I print my work the way I do? Would you burn or dodge or crop the neg as I would wanted it. Would the final print be my work or yours?

These are some thoughts I'm sure photographers like Brett Weston thought from what I have been told and read about. I don't think its insane and how would money benefit a photographer who is passed away? As the saying goes "you can't take it with you."It would only benefit that photographers family.

Polybun said:

I simply hope it sells cheap, REAL cheap, way less than what it is worth and too some young kid that will take the stuff out, and shoot it till it stops going click.

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Can I hire you for the day? I need you to convince the seller of a sweet Mamiya 7II kit that they should let me have it for $200 (cuz that's about all I can get together right now).