Erwin Puts: 'Photography no longer exists'.

copake_ham · Jul 27, 2007

bjorke said:
All businesses eventually turn into some guy sitting on his ass in front of a monitor.

ALL businesses.

Aha, Bjorke, you are wrong!

Reading this while at work, I have resolved to always stand in front of my monitor when I peruse your posts!

Andy K · Jul 27, 2007

Andy K said:
... and those cameras will be linked into the Microsoft mainframe. Your wedding album will be emailed to you before the reception is over and the prints will be whirring out of your printer while you pack for the honeymoon. (all rights to those pics reserved by Microsoft, of course)

Damn! I was only joking, honest! http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/129

Kino · Jul 28, 2007

bjorke said:
All businesses eventually turn into some guy sitting on his ass in front of a monitor.

ALL businesses.

Hey! Trademark that, QUICK

David H. Bebbington · Jul 28, 2007

Most of what I know about Erwin Puts comes from his "Leica Lens Compendium", which does a great job of communicating the finer points of optics in a highly readable style. Comparing the book with writings such as the one on his website, I would have to say that the book has benefited heavily from the efforts of the publisher's editors, whereas the article cited by the OP is barely coherent, has no logical structure, makes sweeping statements without citing any evidence or other corroboration and is in general what we writing professionals call a "sticky mess".

Puts has apparently no knowledge of professional photography or the history of the medium. No sooner had the wet collodion negative/positive process been invented than people like Henry Peach Robinson (in the 1850s) were manipulating the medium to the limit of the facilities available to them - the art of retouching also developed by leaps and bounds, and by the time the Aerograph machine came in use around 1920, there was very litttle which retouchers and graphic designers could not do to change a straight photograph out of all recognition. As a professional photographer, I know of nothing which Photoshop can do which wasn't done 80 years ago - digital imaging and Photoshop just make it easier, quicker and less demanding in terms of skills. Puts seems not to know this, which gives his views zero credibility as far as I am concerned.

Regards,

David

patrickjames · Jul 29, 2007

What exactly has Putz done in his life that he garners such attention on the internet? He is an absolutely awful photographer from the images I have seen of his, and I don't think he really understands much about photography from the writings of his I have read. I have pretty much dismissed him as someone on a soapbox that shouts really loud but doesn't have anything relevant to say.

Patrick

panastasia · Jul 29, 2007

What about those minimalist types (like me), labeled "rat race drop-outs" in th 80's? Using anything but a totally mechanical camera, without batteries, would be go against our ideology.

My exposure meter uses batteries (I'm not totally afflicted) and even played with a digicam for a while before I realized my true nature. I shoot only B&W film now, a simple joy - although, I like all the technical aspects of this medium also, and the total control of such - that leans toward "simplify, simplify" and life is good!

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jul 29, 2007

patrickjames said:
What exactly has Putz done in his life that he garners such attention on the internet? He is an absolutely awful photographer from the images I have seen of his, and I don't think he really understands much about photography from the writings of his I have read. I have pretty much dismissed him as someone on a soapbox that shouts really loud but doesn't have anything relevant to say.

Patrick

Cf. David Bebbington's previous comment on the compendium.

In my opinion, however, EP should have called his essay "My photography no longer exists!"

David H. Bebbington · Jul 29, 2007

mhv said:
In my opinion, however, EP should have called his essay "My photography no longer exists!"

Agree strongly. Oddly enough, if Puts knew more about professional photography, he could have made a powerful case for saying that this aspect of photography has been enormously affected by digital (decimation of picture library business, radical fall in volume of commissioned industrial and commercial photography, heavy use of royalty-free images) and could also have said that "professional photographers" (in the sense of people trained ONLY in photography) are very much an endangered species. But he doesn't know, so he didn't say!

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jul 29, 2007

David H. Bebbington said:
Agree strongly. Oddly enough, if Puts knew more about professional photography, he could have made a powerful case for saying that this aspect of photography has been enormously affected by digital (decimation of picture library business, radical fall in volume of commissioned industrial and commercial photography, heavy use of royalty-free images) and could also have said that "professional photographers" (in the sense of people trained ONLY in photography) are very much an endangered species. But he doesn't know, so he didn't say!

Yep, I think those are the real tidal waves that are the byproduct of digital. Distribution, licensing, "crowdsourcing," and the whole culture of online sharing.

The Internet is perhaps the strongest factor in the existence of digital cameras. Fans of the Simpsons might recall an early episode in which Bart buys a spy camera to take a compromising picture of Homer with a stripper. His fall from grace happens through hand-by-hand exchange of prints. If this episode were created today, Homer's photo would be on the internet, and the rate of propagation would be thousandfolds. Remember the first computer viruses (virii) ? They were spread by "sneakernet", infected floppy being passed between computers.

So if people didn't have the opportunity to share their photos so quickly, I don't think there would have been a market for low-cost digicams. I don't think someone would have bothered to sell such "still video cameras" to the consumers.

But to say that there is an ontological fall from grace of the photographic image from the film-to-digital transition is just plain wankerism.

Dan's45 · Jul 31, 2007

i have been hearing this garbage for some time...i ignore it....it is to get people to drop film based cameras and take up digital cameras...sorta of..."come to the dark side...you knob!" no thanks... i'll stick with my lil 4x5 til i die.

lens_hacker · Jul 31, 2007

panastasia said:
What about those minimalist types (like me), labeled "rat race drop-outs" in th 80's? Using anything but a totally mechanical camera, without batteries, would be go against our ideology.

My exposure meter uses batteries (I'm not totally afflicted) and even played with a digicam for a while before I realized my true nature. I shoot only B&W film now, a simple joy - although, I like all the technical aspects of this medium also, and the total control of such - that leans toward "simplify, simplify" and life is good!

What! Batteries for a Light Meter!!! Never catch on. Why spend money when a good Selenium Cell lasts forever.

I converted MY Digital camera to use FILM. Love to tell that to people looking at my N8008s and asking when I';ll convert. THIS camera USED to be DIGITAL! (It does use batteriesl.)

Ole · Jul 31, 2007

lens_hacker said:
What! Batteries for a Light Meter!!! Never catch on. Why spend money when a good Selenium Cell lasts forever.

My nice spotmeter ran out of batteries this weekend. That didn't worry me much, since I had my Leningrad selenium meter with me as a backup.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jul 31, 2007

Ole said:
My nice spotmeter ran out of batteries this weekend. That didn't worry me much, since I had my Leningrad selenium meter with me as a backup.

Also I've heard that the Sioux just put their fingers like this in front of the sun, and they can tell which f/stop to use, and how much fill flash they can use!

Roger Hicks · Jul 31, 2007

mhv said:
Also I've heard that the Sioux just put their fingers like this in front of the sun, and they can tell which f/stop to use, and how much fill flash they can use!

Ugh. Heap good advice! (Sorry, that may have been Hollywood Navajo, not Sioux at all).

I've just come back from Navarre, with 4 Leicas (M2, M4-P, MP, M8) and a Hasselblad (film back only).

And I used each camera (including the M8) for the pics I thought it would suit best...

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jul 31, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
Ugh. Heap good advice! (Sorry, that may have been Hollywood Navajo, not Sioux at all).

I've just come back from Navarre, with 4 Leicas (M2, M4-P, MP, M8) and a Hasselblad (film back only).

And I used each camera (including the M8) for the pics I thought it would suit best...

But the real question remains: does your photography exist?

bjorke · Aug 1, 2007

I've seen EP write a lot about photo equipment, but... photography?

So why is his marginal opinion generating all this furor now?

David H. Bebbington · Aug 1, 2007

bjorke said:
I've seen EP write a lot about photo equipment, but... photography?

So why is his marginal opinion generating all this furor now?

What furore? The discussion seems to have been quite rational, at least to me!

Regards,

David

copake_ham · Aug 1, 2007

bjorke said:
I've seen EP write a lot about photo equipment, but... photography?

So why is his marginal opinion generating all this furor now?

Boredom, perhaps? And the innate need of a beleaguered tribe that is nonetheless prone to internal dissension to rally around a common enemy?

Besides, everyone chuckles when they say his name.

Sirius Glass · Aug 1, 2007

copake_ham said:
Besides, everyone chuckles when they say his name.

Yeah, they say "Putz" rather than "Puts".

Steve

copake_ham · Aug 1, 2007

Stever said:
Yeah, they say "Putz" rather than "Puts".

Steve

That and perhaps because small outboard engines and other rear-end motors go put-put-put?

lens_hacker · Aug 1, 2007

mhv said:
But the real question remains: does your photography exist?

YES, it does.

Next question Please.

DO little green men on Mars use Film?

YES, but most shoot IR Ektachrome to get the best contrast with the Landscape.

What about when they travel to Venus?

YES, but they need to use a Skylight 1B and load with Kodak Noscreen.

Roger Hicks · Aug 1, 2007

mhv said:
But the real question remains: does your photography exist?

I am ever less sure about this. Is it an aide-memoire? Is it a variety of poetry? I quote a friend, Jean-Marc: "Druillet's French is very... poetic... zat is to say... meaningless."

(The 'zat' is illustrated by my remarking to J-M that after many years living in the US, his accent still remained the same. He replied, "Of course! I work verry 'ard to keep zees accent!")

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Aug 1, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
I am ever less sure about this. Is it an aide-memoire? Is it a variety of poetry? I quote a friend, Jean-Marc: "Druillet's French is very... poetic... zat is to say... meaningless."

(The 'zat' is illustrated by my remaking to J-M that after many years living in the US, his accent still remained the same. He replied, "Of course! I work verry 'ard to keep zees accent!")

And in Québécois: "Druillet's French, it is veré poétic, dat is too say, miningless"

aldevo · Aug 1, 2007

Daniel_OB said:
E. Puts is sometimes ready to visit a hospital, so check before accept what he say or write.
He advised Leica to run digital to get into the line... and Leica web site (forum) is dieing after they went digital. Here on APUG we have 70,000 visitors to darkroom one single thread. Hundreds times more there are photographers not going to computer at all, or do not knows for APUG...

And what I did last night: again reproduction of digital image, customer want it as a photograph. So. I have shooting today also, and tomorow also,... So.

I think personaly what Puts means when he say "photography" is behind the answer, and he is right or should visit a doctor, or he too watch TV a lot.

www.Leica-R.com

I tend to agree with you.

Erwin's sentiments seem to change in line with his status as a paid producer of Leica marketing collateral and whether or not Hove Books has pledged to pay him the fees he feels they owe him from the last edition of the "Leica Lens Compendium".

Roger Hicks · Aug 1, 2007

mhv said:
And in Québécois: "Druillet's French, it is veré poétic, dat is too say, miningless"

Sacred blue, my brave!

Erwin Puts: 'Photography no longer exists'.

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