Errors in manufacture at Cokin filters

[AgX]

At my assortment of old Cokin type A filters I found that

-) one type Grad G1 (neutral grey) #120 is actually a greenish one, exact same hue as Grad E2 #131, just a tiny bit lesser density (maybe it is a Grad E1 #130) *

-) a 4 Star type was designated at its box by name correctly, but got there a number for another star one


This is not to provoke replies as "Cokin is trash" or "You get what you pay for". When these samples were made there were not others of that kind, and still today that is what I am offered locally.

And I know of the issue of small numbers of samples (I got 2 errors at about 25 filters) . I just want to advise fellows to consider errors here too.

*Such filters typically are stored in some boxes. Thus I rather exclude fading. Furthermore the similarity in hue with an existing one is a hint at a mix up.

 

[neilt3]

If your filters are very old , it might be they've discoloured over the years ( the ND's at any rate ) .
I found with my old ND and ND grads from Cokin had a magenta colour cast ( 1980's manufacture ) and when I was using them on digital I replaced them with ones make by Hi-tech , who's filters are truly neutral . These are all the P size .

Since doing more with medium and large format I've now got a set of the Cokin Z pro size .
ND's and Grads , by Cokin .
These seem pretty neutral to me , though I don't think I've used them with colour film .

The manufacturing process has probably been refined over the years and will not degrade .

All the other filters I have have remained the same as when I bought them , polarisers , colour filters for B&W , star and diffraction filters and some others that I won't admit to buying !

If your into infrared photography it's worth knowing that they've changed to IR filters from the square type that allowed light to pass through the sides to a circular glass one that fits in much better .
I've replaced my old plastic ones with these and image quality is much better .
I've picked up both the P and Z size , not cheap , but worth it .

Do you mean your star filter has a different amount of points on than the case said ?
They did make several versions , so at some point the wrong one ended up in it .
Did you buy it new or used ?

 

[ic-racer]

This was odd. Somehow the wrong strength viewfinder diopter was inserted in the plastic holder.

 

[AgX]

The star filter case had in itself a wrong designation. The name indicated a certain type, whereas the number another type. The filter mount was correctly labelled, and also coincided with the name on the case. But as obviously name and number were printed on the case with one printing form, a major error must have taken place.

Concerning the neutral grey grad, I also got a good example. However I exclude dark storage discolouring, and if the filter actually was stored in an open box on a shelf near a window, it still would be surprising if fading just pruduced a hue that they actually offer.


But I found it very interesting to learn about your discoloured neutral grey filters. How did you store them?
As said discolouring during dark storage was beyond my imagination.

I only buy used... And of course filters may have got into wrong cases, or even into wrong mounts. (I experienced the former). But a preceeding user could not have altered printed designations on the filter pane or the casing

I never came across a Z one used, and only very few P ones, never even a P adapter ring.

 

[neilt3]

All my filters have been stored in the dark . Either in a pouch that fastens to a belt or in a camera bag .
Most of my filters were bought new , mainly in a camera shop ( before internet fakes !) .
The 10 Z-Pro filters I have were mostly bought new , you don't tend to see them used , and I wanted them to be in a "new" condition .
The A sized filters I have for TLRs and smaller manual focus lenses were all bought used from a local camera shop that specialised in used gear .
The issue I had with the Cokin p filters were when I started using them on digital where the magenta cast showed up . Looking at them in daylight against a white background they looked fine .
It was a common complaint when a looked into it about 15 years ago .
When I got the Hi-tech ones , I never had the problem again .
I didn't see any problems using them on colour film , bug that might have been corrected at the printing stage so I never knew .
It might also have been down to the digital sensors at the time and the filter pack in front of it that didn't agree with them .

It's strange that the new Z size and very old A size haven't got this problem on current digital sensors or colour film .

I expect I've still got them somewhere so I should dig them out and try them on my current DSLR to see if it's down to the camera rather than the filter .

 

[AgX]

So If I understand you correctly your colour cast issue with old Cokin neutral grey filters only appeared at using them much later on digital cameras. And thus might have been related to the digital camera response. and not to a change at the filters themselves?

 

[Lachlan Young]

That the Cokin ND's weren't totally neutral (as opposed to Lee or Hitech) was something that I thought was well known, even before digital took off.

 

[neilt3]

So If I understand you correctly your colour cast issue with old Cokin neutral grey filters only appeared at using them much later on digital cameras. And thus might have been related to the digital camera response. and not to a change at the filters themselves?

Up until I got a digital camera , all my colour film got dropped off at the local developer and was developed and printed and handed back .
Anything that I wanted printing bigger was selected and the negatives handed back over .
So if they had a colour cast , they would have dealt with it .

All the developing and printing I did myself was with B&W film where colour casts can't show up .
It only bothered me when I could see the issue and had problems correcting it on the PC .
The Hi-tech filters solved the problem .

I'm not sure if I ever used the Cokin A's on digital , so maybe that's why I haven't seen any problems as things are sorted out automatically with the film .
Likewise the Cokin Z's are also only used on film , so either their better than the old ones and don't have this problem , or it's just corrected at the scanning or printing stage .
I can't remember if I've used them on digital .

That the Cokin ND's weren't totally neutral (as opposed to Lee or Hitech) was something that I thought was well known, even before digital took off.

Before I got a digital camera in 2006 I didn't have a computer , never needed one , only occasionally bough a photography magazine , so the issue was new to me .
Cokin and Kood slot in filters were all that they had in shops .
Never heard of anything else .

Times change .

 

[AgX]

That the Cokin ND's weren't totally neutral (as opposed to Lee or Hitech) was something that I thought was well known, even before digital took off.

But as said in my case it is not "not totally neutral" but green, the same hue as their green grad.

 

[AgX]

Whether the Cokin A system is a good idea today of course can be debated.

Take 30 or so A filters in their casing plus holder and adapter rings. That would be even more bulk than a stack of the same filter from glass in metal screw mounts plus thec same number of step down rings. But less weight. The benefit of the A system is that it got grads, something hardly available in screw mounts, its disadvantage then is that the grads are square and thus do not yield much leeway.

 

[neilt3]

But as said in my case it is not "not totally neutral" but green, the same hue as their green grad.

I've a few coloured grads , blue , yellow and orange which are clearly coloured grads .
So your saying the grad you refer to hasn't got just a colour cast , but is in fact a green grad with the code printed on it for an ND grad ?
was it neutral when you bought it ?

Whether the Cokin A system is a good idea today of course can be debated.

Take 30 or so A filters in their casing plus holder and adapter rings. That would be even more bulk than a stack of the same filter from glass in metal screw mounts plus thec same number of step down rings. But less weight. The benefit of the A system is that it got grads, something hardly available in screw mounts, its disadvantage then is that the grads are square and thus do not yield much leeway.

I have the slot in filter systems specifically because of the ND grads , I use the other filters that fit to avoid stacking screw in filters and then a slot in , more convenient and helps prevent vignetting .

I don't keep them in the plastic cases , I have a wallet type holder for the A size .
They hold eight filters each and are about the size of the plastic filter holder .
So I use one for ND and ND grads , another for Colour and colour correction filters .

The P and Z filters are rectangular , so give plenty of space to move .
The A size is 67mm square IIRC .
The largest filter thread diameter I tend to use them on is 49mm , if the name ring on the front of the lens is 5mm , that leave a glass element of about 39mm .
That's about 18mm smaller than the filter , so 9mm either side of the mid point which is usually enough for most scenes .
The A size used on TLR's and other lenses with small front elements are fine too .

 

[AgX]

So your saying the grad you refer to hasn't got just a colour cast , but is in fact a green grad with the code printed on it for an ND grad ?
was it neutral when you bought it ?.

One sample type Grad G1 (neutral grey) #120 is actually a greenish one, exact same hue as Grad E2 #131, just a tiny bit lesser density (maybe it is a Grad E1 #130)
I acquired it used in that green hue.

I don't keep them in the plastic cases , I have a wallet type holder for the A size .
They hold eight filters each and are about the size of the plastic filter holder .

I am anxious not to scratch them by pushing then into some (PVC?) pocket. That is why I prefer the original non-scratching cases.