Ernemann 9X12 camera q.

mark1981 · Nov 12, 2008

Hello,
I purchased an Ernermann 9X12 camera in perfect condition with 3 plates for only 20$ ,
my question is: Does someone knows if I can make it usible for 4x5 standard film, if there is any adapters...or can I make one myself? I want to use it very much...

thank u all!!!

Mark Yashaev
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Ole · Nov 12, 2008

Get film inserts, and use it with 9x12cm film!

Honestly, those old 9x12 plate cameras are wonderful little things, and a big fat botched-up 4x5" converter back ruins the whole pleasure.

And: Congratulations with a great camera at a great price!

df cardwell · Nov 12, 2008

Agree with Ole, play with 9x12 !

But, ahem, a neat 4x5 conversion CAN be done...

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Larry Bullis · Nov 12, 2008

I started with a 9x12 Kodak Recomar, and also a similar Zeiss unit. That was Holy Cow! 45 years ago! I still have the cameras and every once in awhile I think of using them. Back then, we could get 9x12 in film packs, but I doubt we're going to find any of those now. I have a back that gives me a 6x9 on 120 film, which is what I most often used. That was really great, especially for portraits. I imagine the roll backs must occasionally appear.

FM2N · Nov 12, 2008

Hello,
Try this link-
http://www.f295.org/Pinholeforum/forum/Blah.pl?m-1199071121/s-all/

Arthur

bnstein · Nov 12, 2008

df cardwell said:
Agree with Ole, play with 9x12 !

But, ahem, a neat 4x5 conversion CAN be done...

Dead Link Removed

This does look neat, and for something like a patent etui (of which I have 3) it would make a great backpacking camera. Could you give more details?

mark1981 · Nov 13, 2008

bnstein said:
This does look neat, and for something like a patent etui (of which I have 3) it would make a great backpacking camera. Could you give more details?

first off all thak u all..!!!
more details...uploding some pic. the lens is Anastigmat 135mm f6.8 I remuved the lens and put on my TOYO 4x5 camera and it is cute and nice in good working order...(uploding pic that was taken with the lens) it's very small camera and i wish to make it backpacking camera.
p.s
sorry for the mess on my working table...))

Larry Bullis · Nov 13, 2008

mark1981 said:
... it's very small camera and i wish to make it backpacking camera.

Nothing could be better for the purpose.

Ian Grant · Nov 13, 2008

You might want to swap the lens for a 135mm Tessar or equivalent which will give you significantly better performance and coverage. The early Tessar's cover 5x4 with room for some movements although edge/corner sharpness isn't up to modern standards until f22/f32. I have been using a 135mm Tessar on a Crown Graphic.

Ian

df cardwell · Nov 13, 2008

Very, very neat little camera. Perfect.

The lens, I'll bet, is the same design as a Dagor, and will cover more than an ample amount. This isn't a camera to make 30x40s from. It doesn't seem to have been used enough to wear out the metal parts,
but in time the bellows will need to be replaced. It seems to be a treasure.

Camera Bellows, Birmingham, England (http://www.camerabellows.com/Replacement.html) is far and away the the best for this.

Ian Grant · Nov 13, 2008

df cardwell said:
The lens, I'll bet, is the same design as a Dagor, and will cover more than an ample amount.

The cheaper Anastigmat 135mm f6.8 lenses were often triplets although some where Doppel Anastigmat, few would have been up to the quality of a Dagor.

Judging by the OP's image taken with the lens and the fall off at the corners it may well be an Triplet.

All manufacturers offered 9x12 cameras with a variety of lenses and shutters, the best models used Tessars, Heliars, Xenars, Eurynars, Dagors etc in Compur or Ibsor shutters, then with the cheapest lenses a 3 speed Vario or Derval shutter which is what appears to be on this particular camera.

Ian

df cardwell · Nov 13, 2008

Yes, Ian, it could be almost ANYTHING.

I'm still betting on a dagor

Ole · Nov 13, 2008

There's an Ernemann Anastigmat f:6, 5 elements in 2 groups, but that should have 82 degrees coverage. But there's also a doppel-anastigmat f.6.8, which is a dialyte (4 in 4 groups). This seems more likely.

mark1981 · Nov 13, 2008

it is an doppel-anastigmat f.6.8, (4 in 4 groups) took it apart to clean it...it looks to me very clean no fungus, If I will be able to bult this adapter I want to replace the old lens with the Yamasaki C-CONGO 1:6.3 f=150 on it, it is in very good condition and I think it will fitt the camera and it is much better IMO

Ian Grant · Nov 13, 2008

Don't worry Mark you can sell your spare "Dagor" to Don after you fit the Cong

You will definitely get far better results with the Congo.

I now have a 1950's coated Tessar which I can fit on my Ernemann 9x12which has no lens. It's worth getting more 9x12 plate holders as film is readily available, I think I have at least 15 that luckily fit all 5 of my 9x12 cameras.

Let us know how you get on making a 5x4 back.

Ian

GeorgesGiralt · Nov 13, 2008

Hello !
I've in my cupboard the Ernemann 9x12 my grand father bring during WWI at the Dardanelles.
I've used it with film (9x12 size) FP4 using the original plate holders. The trick is to put into the holder a sheet of mount board painted black to prevent reflection.
My lens is the original one (Hermagis Anastigmat 135 mm F:4.5 ) but the original shutter had been changed because the original Compound like one was dead. Alas, the "new" one has it's slow speeds not working as the mechanism is totally worn out.
Try it, use it, love it !

mark1981 · Nov 13, 2008

Ian Grant said:
Don't worry Mark you can sell your spare "Dagor" to Don after you fit the Cong

You will definitely get far better results with the Congo.

I now have a 1950's coated Tessar which I can fit on my Ernemann 9x12which has no lens. It's worth getting more 9x12 plate holders as film is readily available, I think I have at least 15 that luckily fit all 5 of my 9x12 cameras.

Let us know how you get on making a 5x4 back.

Ian

WOW...!!! 5 9x12 cameras???

Ian Grant · Nov 13, 2008

This is a "little" Orion Werks - same size as my Ernemann - alongside (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

These 9x12's are excellent cameras provided you don't want to use movements, they are far smaller & lighter than corresponding 5x4 cameras and the film format is only a fraction smaller.

Obviously the Patent Etui is even smaller than an Ernemann compared to a Pacemaker Crown Graphic

You can find far more in the Plate Camera section here on APUG.

Ian

Ole · Nov 13, 2008

FYI, I've corrected "Ernermann" to "Ernemann" in the thread title for easier searching.

Andrew Moxom · Nov 13, 2008

Could the lens be a legendary Ernostar?

mark1981 · Nov 14, 2008

I started building the adapter..;-)
with no proper tools it will take me more time than it could take me...

Bandiby · Aug 15, 2012

Dear All,
I'm planing to buy an Ernemann large format camera. But.

First of all the camera is toally ruined by time and dust and need to be renovated. I would like to make it by my own hands, and before i do anything, would like to ask here a few things.
I'm new here at APUG but i'm in analog photography since a few years. Had built thing and also repaired smaller equipment like my Bessa R3a.
But this is a bigger nut then just tighten a screw.

I attached 4 pictures, cannot give better because i don't have neighter.

I can buy it from the internet for around 35$ and would like to know, Is it possible to repair it?
If yes, what kind of Ernemann is it exactly, i couldn't figure out

Thank you for the help,
Bandi

Ian Grant · Aug 15, 2012

Welcome to APUG Bandi.

It's an Ernemann Klpapp, which has a large focal plane shutter,. It looks like it'll need an awful lot of restoration and you'll have difficulty finding some of the parts easily. A lens should be less difficult as it probably had a Tessar.

Not the ideal large format camera project to start off with, although it's the kind of challenge I enjoy. On a more practical side the camera's lack of movements will make it less useful in the long run.

Ian

Bandiby · Aug 15, 2012

Ian Grant said:
Welcome to APUG Bandi.

It's an Ernemann Klpapp, which has a large focal plane shutter,. It looks like it'll need an awful lot of restoration and you'll have difficulty finding some of the parts easily. A lens should be less difficult as it probably had a Tessar.

Not the ideal large format camera project to start off with, although it's the kind of challenge I enjoy. On a more practical side the camera's lack of movements will make it less useful in the long run.

Ian

Dear Ian,

Thank you for the quick answer. For me is also the challenge, what gives a push to make it.
The comfortability is not a question. I was walking one week long around Prague with a Sinar Norma just because I wanted to show, it is possible to use a Cardan camera as a Field one

Do you think maybe, if i can't find a small but necessary part for resoration, then i can find somewhere somebody who can craft or customly make it?
Or should i search another piece of "junk" to renovate?
The main point for me in this camera is the inbuilt shutter, nothing else. Maybe You know another brand who have similar kind of camera?

Thanks,
Bandi

Ian Grant · Aug 16, 2012

As you have a Sinar then you're aware of limitations so maybe go for the Ernemann but without to high expectations, some parts missing paneles etc you can make, the shutters trickier but not too hard to replace the curtains, the finders missing. Perhaps a longer term project.

There's plenty of other FP shutter 9x12 cameras in Europe as Goerz, Zeiss and a few others made them or there's the SLR option Mentor being an example. Usually cameras that need slight restoration are relatively inexpensive.

I'd buy that Ernemann as a learning project, if you're lucky it can be restored if not you've the knowledge to move on to other restorations.

Ian

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