Equipment web sites - dying out

[RichardJack]

Hi,
From the beginning of the internet to present date I have seen many great web sites come and go. As a collector and photographer of film cameras I often go searching for information and specs. Lost are several great web sites dedicated to Minolta SR, Miranda, Bronica, Nikon, enlarging equipment, films, and more. I assume as the person hosting the site ages or passes on the page is taken down and the information is only a memory, unless you printed out a hard copy. I'm sorry now I did not print many of these missing sites while I could, I assumed they would remain for my lifetime. There are books but some have become rare and expensive and often incomplete or inaccurate information. Other than here, many brand dedicated forums and groups have bit the dust as digital advanced.
To anyone's knowledge are these old web pages stored anywhere? Camera-wiki.org has lots to be desired, a lot of their information is not accurate.
Has anyone given this any thought? Digital is supposed to be so wonderful but all can be lost if someone pulls the plug.

 

[Wallendo]

Try the Wayback Machine at Archive.org.

They have archived many abandoned websites.

 

[chip j]

Yes, I printed out Ken Rockwell reviews that are now not as detailed. I have boxes of hard copies of equipment reviews and American Suburb X photographer reviews that are long gone.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Any old, not anymore manufactured equipment, has the same tendency. Internet is driven by consumerism, first and foremost. Film cameras are well behind of their glory days. People who were involved are getting less and less common.
Plus, hosting web site isn't something cheap. Donations to support are dependent on the massiveness of the interest. But these days most of the film gear it only above of The Spinning Wheel for consumer demand.
"Minolta SR, Miranda, Bronica, enlarging equipment" is something which is not popular these days and abandoned by manufacturer long time ago. Canonikon has their own historical sites. At least, Canon has on-line museum. And only because of marketing - "Look, we are long existing company, buy from us with confidence".
Check on old Leica, Leitz lenses. Modern digital gearheads are horny at it, internet is full of data and details. Why? Because it is desirable and prestige for modern crowd. Who really wants Minolta, Konica? Dead interest, dead web-sites.

 

[RichardJack]

Hi,
I partially agree. Your 100% correct with "who wants these sites?" but it's still a shame even if the number of people is only a handful. I am interested in old forgotten cameras and I know many others that are as well. If our libraries had that attitude imagine all the history that would be lost. There are exceptions like Nikon who has archived serial number and manufacturing records, it would be great if all camera companies made these records available. I threw away hundreds of copies of Modern Photography and Peterson's Photographic I wish I kept them for the camera and lens tests etc. Minolta lenses are sought after by mirrorless camera owners, many Rokkors were better than Nikon & Canon optics, probably because of Minolta's involvement with Leica. Several good Rollieflex sites have vanished, if it's because of "dead interest" it's a shame.

 

[DWThomas]

This is an unfortunate downside of the age when everyone can be a publisher. It would be good perhaps if something like the Library of Congress here in the US archived complete collections of some of the Internet sites that have especially good collections of information. It's not just an issue with virtual collections online -- I have seen this problem even with collections of physical hardware from parlor organs to steam locomotives. An individual with a passion for a category of 'things' amasses a collection and then is struck down by illness, accident or just old age, but with no plan in place to keep the stuff together. Of course in probably 99% of cases the individual doesn't have the means to establish an endowed foundation anyway. In some situations I've seen, distant family connections, with no interest or appreciation of the objects, randomly dispersed the stuff via auction, sometimes portions even getting scrapped.

 

[Huss]

Yes, I printed out Ken Rockwell reviews that are now not as detailed. I have boxes of hard copies of equipment reviews and American Suburb X photographer reviews that are long gone.

For all the grief he gets, he has been very useful to me as a Leica resource. That's how I first discovered him. But for the longest time now all his site is is a receptacle of links to sales at places like Amazon, BH, Adorama.
Mir has good info for Nikon peeps.

 

[EdSawyer]

I have a lot of scanned and digitized Modern Photo (and other sources) lens tests online here. Including many Rokkor lens tests. I have more that I have scanned but not OCR'ed/posted yet but will someday soon.

www.edsawyer.com/lenstests/

-Ed

 

[Alan Johnson]

Dead Link Removed

eg, type Nikon in that, quite a few hits.

 

[colin wells]

I see what you mean i just tried to look up the Yashica camera club (i was their last week )for some info and its gone . I do a lot of research on the web and find a lot of the links to info pages are broken. It is a great shame as a lot of this information will be lost forever

 

[guangong]

Unfortunately, RichardJack, libraries do in fact get rid of a lot of stuff, which is the reason book dealers frequent the dumpsters of Princeton and Columbia libraries. Some years back the Princeton library even trashed an original copy of Newton's Principia Mathematica because nobody referenced it for a few years. An honest book dealer returned the multimillion dollar book back to the library.
If you believe that a library will place any of your donated books in their collection, think again. They do what are your alternatives...either sell them (often by the pound )or trash them.

 

[RichardJack]

Sad to say I don't think I've been to a library in years. In the 1990's I went through their micro film collections of Modern and Polular photography making print outs of camera and lens tests. I wonder if they still micro film magazines or scan them.
I have a wonderful copy of a Modern Photography magazine from the 1980's where they tested 32 50-58mm Normal lenses from various popular 35mm SLR's at the time (Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Minolta, Leica, etc.), when I have time I will scan it. I think anyone interested in MF cameras would be interested in seeing it. Is there a location on this site for uploading several pages of test reports?

 

[Johnkpap]

Yes I too find this a problem but it is the nature of the internet.

The page I miss the most is the 3rd Party Lens Site,

Also there are a number of useful documents that were being hosted on a number of sites but due to the limited interest people have shown they
have been left to expire. If I find one I download everything as things don't stay put very long...........There are also the copywrite police
who have things removed even when the book is so old only APUG Users would be interested.

With regard to actual Used books on photography, they are getting quite hard to find at a reasonable price here in Sunny Adelaide, the best source will be the Annual Photo Market. The usual not for profit book shops I frequent do not seem to be getting a lot of stock at the moment. On line selling could have a bit to do with it but it could be that there are a lot more book horders than just me.

Johnkpap

 

[Sirius Glass]

This happens. People lose interest in maintaining the website or no longer have enough equipment to continue. If you are so moved, you could take advantage and set up your own website.

 

[Trask]

Please educate me -- what does it cost to have a website? I mean, once I've uploaded all my Modern Photo copies etc to my website, what would it cost me to just leave it available to everyone on the web, on a monthly or annual basis? I'm trying to figure out why, apart from death and the rest of the family not caring about one's website, a website would disappear?

 

[BrianShaw]

Trask... before you do that please review copyright law so you don't risk a future problem.

 

[Trask]

And a follow-up question to my own post: are the "inheritors" or whatever of old magazines like Modern Photo etc going to come after me if I upload old test reports or columns to the internet? I understand and support not stealing intellectual property, but I can't see that my putting up some Canon LTM lens tests from 40 years ago is going to damage the interests of whoever "owns" Modern Photo these days.

 

[Alan Johnson]

Some contributors upload to Flickr, which is free.

 

[BrianShaw]

Maybe and maybe not. But if they do it might not be good for you. Finding who owns or has the authority to grant useage rights to a defunct magazine might be very diffickult... if not impossible.

Copyright laws leaves a lot of us in a lurch when the owner disappears, can't be found, or simply doesn't want to grant permission for reuse. It took me 8 years to get a copy of a 24 page privately published book due to this kind of issue.

 

[fstop]

And a follow-up question to my own post: are the "inheritors" or whatever of old magazines like Modern Photo etc going to come after me if I upload old test reports or columns to the internet? I understand and support not stealing intellectual property, but I can't see that my putting up some Canon LTM lens tests from 40 years ago is going to damage the interests of whoever "owns" Modern Photo these days.

Due diligence would suggest you make the effort to obtain permission, the alternative is to strictly stick to the "fair use" provision of the copyright law. If your use of copyrighted material is being used for educational purposes and there are no ads on your website you probably would be safe.
ISPs have term of use policies also that address copyrights, you need to review them also.

 

[CMoore]

Why would there be a copyright issue.?
If a magazine is no longer being sold, would it be illegal to post articles (with free access) that were written years ago, and presented as historical information and not pretending to be something that was written by "you".?

 

[MattKing]

Why would there be a copyright issue.?
If a magazine is no longer being sold, would it be illegal to post articles (with free access) that were written years ago, and presented as historical information and not pretending to be something that was written by "you".?

People buy the copyrights from magazines, in order to later sue others who breach those copyrights.

 

[Trask]

Thanks for all your thoughts -- exactly why I asked the questions. It bums me to think that I can't share with archive with others -- old crippling from Shutterbug (when it was a yellow paper you received in the mail), old articles about exposure compensation for close-ups (before all cameras had built-in light meters), test reports on old cameras. Perhaps I'd be protected by Fair Use, but I don't need the hassle if it turns out I'm wrong.

 

[Leigh B]

People buy the copyrights from magazines, in order to later sue others who breach those copyrights.

Copyright in the US is a complex subject.
I researched it at some length before putting up a site with vintage manufacturer's literature.

Regarding old magazines and other published material...
If published in 1963 or earlier and the copyright was not renewed, the work is in the public domain.
Copyright cannot be re-asserted by anyone on any work in the public domain.

For works published after 1963, the copyright term is 95 years.
This is also true for works published in 1963 or earlier if the copyright was renewed.

Here's a very good (lengthy) reference on the subject:
http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm

- Leigh

 

[EdSawyer]

I have that 50-58mm lens test from MP scanned already. I'll try to post it soon. Frankly, I think fair-use doctrine covers any and all of this.

My local university library has bound paper volumes of all the old MP and PP and other magazines which is where I got most of my scans. They have others on microfiche, which I also used when I couldn't get the paper versions. Some great content in those old magazines, highly recommended. Darkroom Photography (which later changed to Camera and Darkroom) was one of the best, if not THE best of that era, I think.