Epson V850 / Silverfast 8 / LightRoom workflow questions

Fred D Hummel · Oct 29, 2022

New to scanning: 4x5 BW negs using Epson 780 on Windows system. Have done several without the quality I expect but am learning a little thing each time.

This morning I did first wet mount which came out gray on monitor as if the red frame had a fog. (Not related to wet mount.) When opened in my scan path temporary storage file to export to LR image was signed by Jackson Pollock. (No idea what caused or later cured the fog.)

So did a second of same neg and came out very respectable when viewed in SilverFast 8. BUT, the image did not transfer to the temporary storage file. Everything exactly the same path as every other scan but can not figure out how to either move image file to the storage file or to move it directly into LR.

Any thoughts?

PS: Complete scan took about 25 minutes. Is that average?

Thanks, Fred

Les Sarile · Oct 29, 2022

What is an Epson 780?

Fred D Hummel · Oct 29, 2022

It's a fat-fingered 850 pro.
Any help?

Duceman · Oct 29, 2022

Fred D Hummel said:
PS: Complete scan took about 25 minutes. Is that average?

Sounds like you're either not putting the calibration portion at the top/beginning of the scan, it is smudged with something, or the holder is misaligned. Each of these will cause the problems you're describing. So, when using the wet-mount glass holder, make sure the small rectangular window is positioned so that it will be the first thing the scanner scans, and make sure that the little pegs of the holder are each fully seated.

koraks · Oct 29, 2022

Moderator note: I modified the thread title so it's easier for people to identify which products are involved.

Fred D Hummel said:
When opened in my scan path temporary storage file to export to LR image was signed by Jackson Pollock.

This sounds...interesting - many colorful splotches on the scan? Not entirely sure what to make of this; can you explain more specifically what the problem is?

Fred D Hummel said:
PS: Complete scan took about 25 minutes. Is that average?

Scanning a 4x5 on high resolution (not sure what dpi you're scanning at) can indeed take quite long.

Fred D Hummel · Oct 29, 2022

Found a couple answers: Have no idea why the one scan didn't migrate to the file and probably never will. Subsequent scans using the same scan dimensions / calibrations as all priors worked fine. The Halloween gods must be near. Excess scan time I can write off to inadvertently activating ISRD, USM & Gradation. Pretty sure holders were accurately placed but thanks for the caution, I'll keep a better watch.

I'm finding this program frustrating which means I'll probably love it once used to it. The education available seems less than stellar from whatever source - lots of "I use this..." with no underlying reasoning.

Thanks for comments and suggestions, now it's on to finding the right focus settings.

Fred

grat · Oct 30, 2022

Don't use iSRD with B&W negatives. The silver content on the negative causes the process to become very confused, and produce strange geometric smudged shapes.

SRDx will work as it's entirely a software process that tries to identify anomalies.

I don't let the scanner sharpen-- I prefer to do that myself in post. Usually with "frequency separation" in Affinity Photo, but any sharpening process that allows you to sharpen the lines without sharpening the grain is fine.

I do set the histogram to match the image preview.

One trick I saw for finding the focus height (should be 3mm) is to use a clear ruler on the glass at one end, and on a 5mm spacer at the other, and find the sharpest line on the ruler, and measure it's height. Personally, I just spent an hour or so doing scans at different heights, and finding the one I preferred. Turned out to be the stock 3mm height (the triangles on the Epson holders).

250swb · Oct 30, 2022

I know it's tempting to think that expensive software is going to be better than free software, but Epson Scan is far simpler, more reliable, and no less good than Silverfast for an Epson flatbed scanner. Regarding scan speed do make sure you have any aids or interpolation switched off (it just adds to the file size and not the resolution) and also have sharpening switched off, scanning software is not as powerful or clever compared to editing software. All you want from a scan is a file that encompasses both ends of the histogram, not a file that is a finished image, again leave that for editing software such as Lightroom or Photoshop.

Dwight Anderson · Oct 30, 2022

I got my v850 for scanning my father's hundreds of Kodachrome's and have found the Silverfast software to be very helpful for that. But the software tends to revert to previous settings, without warning, including file locations. You really have to check every option and file location before you hit the scan button.

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 30, 2022

250swb said:
I know it's tempting to think that expensive software is going to be better than free software, but Epson Scan is far simpler, more reliable, and no less good than Silverfast for an Epson flatbed scanner. Regarding scan speed do make sure you have any aids or interpolation switched off (it just adds to the file size and not the resolution) and also have sharpening switched off, scanning software is not as powerful or clever compared to editing software. All you want from a scan is a file that encompasses both ends of the histogram, not a file that is a finished image, again leave that for editing software such as Lightroom or Photoshop.

+1

jonmon6691 · Oct 30, 2022

+1 to silverfast being really annoying and buggy, I've been using it for a year and a half and haven't switched because my short time trying out the competition was even worse. I might go back and try the epson software based on this thread though...

My workflow is to scan HDR raw from silverfast, then open it in Silverfast HDR and bulk export to 16 bit tiffs. This is the only way I've been able to find in their programs that lets you actually get 16bit files. Its also nice for 35mm because it takes way too long to set up all the scanning frames when the scanner has to do a pre scan every time you zoom in. So I just do a raw scan of the entire area, then I open that in HDR, make all the frames, and bulk export the tiffs which I can do while the scanner is busy scanning the next group of images.

I have a v750 with the 4x5 holder and I usually just use that, but sometimes I want to get the film borders and I'll use the wet mount holder. I haven't had any issue with either, but if OP can post some example pics we could get a better idea what's going on.

grat · Nov 3, 2022

250swb said:
I know it's tempting to think that expensive software is going to be better than free software, but Epson Scan is far simpler, more reliable, and no less good than Silverfast for an Epson flatbed scanner. Regarding scan speed do make sure you have any aids or interpolation switched off (it just adds to the file size and not the resolution) and also have sharpening switched off, scanning software is not as powerful or clever compared to editing software. All you want from a scan is a file that encompasses both ends of the histogram, not a file that is a finished image, again leave that for editing software such as Lightroom or Photoshop.

If you have an Epson v850, you have a "free" copy of SilverFast.

Personally, Epson Scan annoys me, and I prefer Silverfast. It has it's quirks, but once you grasp them, it's a straightforward piece of software that produces consistent results.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 4, 2022

grat said:
If you have an Epson v850, you have a "free" copy of SilverFast.

Personally, Epson Scan annoys me, and I prefer Silverfast. It has it's quirks, but once you grasp them, it's a straightforward piece of software that produces consistent results.

Silverfast has to be upgraded at an additional expense to get the ability to correct negative color using the other Lab color program.

grat · Nov 4, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Silverfast has to be upgraded at an additional expense to get the ability to correct negative color using the other Lab color program.

You've made this claim before. Negafix works out of the box with the basic version, and produces images that can easily be corrected (if desired) with whatever editor you prefer to use.

I assume you're saying it can't produce RAW images for Negative Lab Pro, but I don't see Negative Lab Pro as necessary-- and since I don't use Photoshop / Lightroom, I can't even use it if I wanted to.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 5, 2022

grat said:
You've made this claim before. Negafix works out of the box with the basic version, and produces images that can easily be corrected (if desired) with whatever editor you prefer to use.

I assume you're saying it can't produce RAW images for Negative Lab Pro, but I don't see Negative Lab Pro as necessary-- and since I don't use Photoshop / Lightroom, I can't even use it if I wanted to.

I don't recall all the details because I decided not to upgrade and pay extra money. But the Silverfast program Epson provided with my v850 scanner is the basic program, a loss leader. You have to upgrade Silverfast to get the full operation to take full advantage of Negafix. That was my understanding. So I didn't use Silverfast and just use Epson's own Epsonscan. Since I rarely shoot negative color film, but mainly chromes and BW, it doesn't really matter to me anyway.

I just checked and I think here's the problem: The scanner comes with SilverFast SE Plus 8 but you need to upgrade to get the HDRi RAW scan and possibly other stuff to get full power of Silverfast.

grat · Nov 5, 2022

The Epson V800 comes with SilverFast 8 SE (the basic version). The V850 comes with SE Plus. AI Studio is the "full" version, but all three come with Negafix. You need SE Plus for multi-exposure, AACO, and official Kodachrome support. Calibration is available for SE Plus, and is in the box for AI Studio.

AI Studio gives you job manager, and custom negafix profiles (which I've never used). All three versions produce HRDi and 48/16 bit images (including RAW).

I went from SE to AI Studio simply because it was a one-time $99 upgrade (I have the V800).

Since as far as I can tell, HDRi is a SilverFast proprietary format, I'm really OK with 48 bit or 16 bit images in TIFF for my base scans.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 5, 2022

grat said:
The Epson V800 comes with SilverFast 8 SE (the basic version). The V850 comes with SE Plus. AI Studio is the "full" version, but all three come with Negafix. You need SE Plus for multi-exposure, AACO, and official Kodachrome support. Calibration is available for SE Plus, and is in the box for AI Studio.

AI Studio gives you job manager, and custom negafix profiles (which I've never used). All three versions produce HRDi and 48/16 bit images (including RAW).

I went from SE to AI Studio simply because it was a one-time $99 upgrade (I have the V800).

Since as far as I can tell, HDRi is a SilverFast proprietary format, I'm really OK with 48 bit or 16 bit images in TIFF for my base scans.

Thanks for the clarifications.

Epson V850 / Silverfast 8 / LightRoom workflow questions

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