Epson Digital ICE questions

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cooltouch

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I just bought a used Epson 4990 and have just started playing around with it on an older computer. Processing power is somewhat slow and ram is limited, but I can scan images at 4800 dpi (indicated) without difficulty.

I also own an Epson 3170, and the Epson Scan software it came with has a dust removal feature that I've learned the hard way not to use. The dust removal feature imparts artifacts to images that look like slivers of glass . . . or ice.

After my first attempt at trying the ICE technology that my 4990 supports, I realized when looking at the scans that I was looking at the same sort of artifacts. Slivers of . . . ice -- or glass, whatever. Except these artifacts were located just a bit below the dust particles they were supposed to affect -- or remove, or whatever. Odd, I thought. Why have the ICE artifacts located just below the dust objects, rather than superimposed upon them, which is what I assume is supposed to happen.

Then I got to thinking -- ah, this is a used scanner, and perhaps something got bumped out of alignment. Like, say, in shipping it from Chicago, which is where this scanner came from, to Houston, which is where I reside. But first, I'm wondering, is this even possible? It seems to me that, based on evidence I can supply, some sort of mechanical adjustment to the ICE feature must be possible.

But more to the point, I'm wondering, do I even really need it? I mean, if it imparts even the most slightly detectable artifact that resembles a sliver of ice or glass on an image, I will not use it. But since my scanner appears to have adjustment issues, I can't tell if I might want it or not. So, I guess what I'm asking is -- can you detect the artifacts from ICE when you examine your scans at 100%, and if you can, is it worth the time and trouble saved by not manually removing the dust from your images?

I've also read that ICE softens images, which is another reason why I don't think I may be interested in using it. I've learned from the use of my 3170, which as it turns out does a quite decent job of scanning images, all things considered, that sharpness must be conserved whenever possible. Any "feature" that might reduce sharpness, I am predisposed to rejecting.

Thanks,
Michael
 
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pellicle

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Hi

I never liked ICE on my epsons, though the 4990 is better than the 4870 I still have some issues with it. I think the mechanism is quite robust. The top section moves by its own motors and compared to the 4870 the 4990 seems to just move an LED array along driven by one side. I dont think its precision as they row of lighting LEDs dont need to be aligned so precisely to the scan heads.

what sort of artifacts are you getting?? For example on this scan of provia with ICE I found this sort of funny business

PF-veSeg1.jpg


see that stuff over on the cliff to the right just under the palms??

I spot by hand now
 
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cooltouch

cooltouch

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Hmmm, to be honest, it's hard to tell what "stuff" you mean. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. First is a jpg of the slide. Kodachrome, scanned at 4800dpi, reduced to 600x400 with minimal compression. Next is a 100% crop of one dust particle. You can see the artifact just beneath it.

texbldg1.jpg


ice1.jpg


I've read that ICE doesn't care for Kodachrome. Maybe this is part of the problem? At least half of my slides are Kodachrome, so I guess I just won't bother with it, especially if it continues to be off-center like the photo shows.

Best,
Michael
 

pellicle

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Hmmm, to be honest, it's hard to tell what "stuff"


yes, I understand ... its in the middle right as what looks like layers on a topographical map between the upper right fern and the lower middel fern on the cliff face ... there was no dust there on the non ice scan its just an artifact...


you mean. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. First is a jpg of the slide. Kodachrome, scanned at 4800dpi, reduced to 600x400 with minimal compression. Next is a 100% crop of one dust particle. You can see the artifact just beneath it.

yes, I've seen that sort of thing too ... I believe it is caused by the misalignment of the upper and lower racks. I believe that this is a limitation of the design, as when you think about the precision requirements of aligning the top and bottom racks (one holds the light the other the receptor) and that they are separated by such distances and not even held in a rigid precision container (note the lid can move through a 1/10th of a mm easilly that this is to be expected.

if you examine my blog you will find an article where I demonstrate pixel migration and differences between R G and B registration

http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2008/08/epson-flatbed-film-scanners.html

this is not consistent from place to place on the scanner

thus I consider that while the optics may be suitable to 3500dpi the other parts of the opto mechanical system is not reliable to much more than 2000 or so. Even there some of the mush will be lost in the printing process as explored at this article

http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2009/05/digital-vs-film-scans-screens-and.html

so keep the entire process in mind when pixel peeping :D
 
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