Epson 3800, ziatype calibration problems

[kejack]

I recently acquired an Epson 3800 printer and now I'm in the process of calibrating for digital negatives using ChartThrob, for making ziatype prints. Based on earlier posts I've read in this forum that indicate excellent results with RGB "black & white" negatives (at least for DOP palladium), I decided to go that route rather than to colorize. Here are the details...

negative substrate: Pictorico OHP
media type in printer driver: premium glossy photo paper
paper: Diploma Parchment
chem: 4afo, 2lfo, 6pd
exposure: 9 minutes in UV box

Once the resulting curve is applied, I get a pretty good black and a very long midtone range, but I'm having a devil of a time getting enough density to render paper white. It's close, but when I use 100% K to mask around the image, I can see significant fogging within that area on the print.

Any insights and/or suggestions would be much appreciated!

cheers, Ken

 

[Platonumb]

try boosting your ink density I would start at 10%. I use 14%
good luck.

 

[kejack]

try boosting your ink density I would start at 10%. I use 14%
good luck.

I forgot to note in my previous post that I had increased the ink density by 5% (I've been assuming that this is the same as "color density" in the paper configuration submenu of the Epson driver). This is what I'd read in one of Kerik's posts that he had used for DOP palladium. I wonder, is there some characteristic of ziatype/POP palladium that renders the 5% boost not sufficient to get the needed density? At any rate, I'll try going 10% and see what happens.

thanks!
Ken

 

[Kerik]

Ziatype has a longer scale than DOP pt/pd. I'm not surprised you're getting fogging. Try increasing the contrast of your sensitizer. Or, switch to DOP.

BTW, I'm now using QTR for negs rather than the curve approach I'd been using previously.

 

[kejack]

Ziatype has a longer scale than DOP pt/pd. I'm not surprised you're getting fogging. Try increasing the contrast of your sensitizer. Or, switch to DOP.

BTW, I'm now using QTR for negs rather than the curve approach I'd been using previously.

That's what I was afraid of! but I was able to make successful negatives for zias with my dear departed Epson 2200, and so I'm still harboring some hope for success with the 3800.

I've been reading many posts on the QTR method and have to admit to my eyes glazing over at this point. It appears to have some great potential, but I'm far from wrapping my head around it.

I've just printed a step wedge with a 10% ink boost and I'll see how that works for zia. Maybe for the time being I'll have try adding some dichromate as you suggest.

many thanks!
Ken

 

[Ben Altman]

but I was able to make successful negatives for zias with my dear departed Epson 2200, and so I'm still harboring some hope for success with the 3800.

The K3 inks don't block UV as strongly as the Ultrachrome inks in the 2200. But they do enough for me to print Ziatypes with no restrainer, although I'm also using QTR. You could add some yellow to your mix, as it blocks pretty strongly, if that would fit into your workflow.

Ben

 

[kejack]

The K3 inks don't block UV as strongly as the Ultrachrome inks in the 2200. But they do enough for me to print Ziatypes with no restrainer, although I'm also using QTR. You could add some yellow to your mix, as it blocks pretty strongly, if that would fit into your workflow.

Ben

Ben, many thanks for your comments. I've been reading more about using QTR for digital negatives, and I think I'm getting at least the beginning of a grasp of how it works. I'm interested that you're getting good density using QTR for ziatype negatives - would you be willing to share the curve that you've generated? I'm thinking that perhaps I could use it as a starting point - maybe with a tweaker curve to adjust to my chemistry and paper.

cheers,
Ken

 

[Ben Altman]

Hi Ken,

I'd share a curve, but I'm working with an R1800, not the 3800, and using my own idiosyncratic mix of K3 inks. So I'd only confuse you. But if you have some patience, QTR is a good approach. Take a look at http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252 and http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478&page=2 for a summary of my ideas. Using the three standard black inks and yellow, you could do something like this or just start from one of the canned QTR curves and use the adjustments in the program. There are many ways to do this stuff, but using QTR to print out a step-wedge of each individual ink and then exposing your mix through them and/or measuring them with a UV densitometer is a real education about what your printer can do.

Best, Ben.

 

[kejack]

Using the three standard black inks and yellow, you could do something like this or just start from one of the canned QTR curves and use the adjustments in the program. There are many ways to do this stuff, but using QTR to print out a step-wedge of each individual ink and then exposing your mix through them and/or measuring them with a UV densitometer is a real education about what your printer can do.

Best, Ben.

Thanks, Ben - looks like you've been doing some far deeper exploration of the use of QTR than I can contemplate doing at present, especially not owning a densitometer. Very interesting, nonetheless.

I think for the time being I will continue to try and derive a workable combination of a PS curve and use of dichromate in my zia mix - druther not use the latter because of increased exposure time, but I'll see how it goes. I would like to get to the point where I'm using QTR to generate my negatives, though.

cheers,
Ken

 

[Ben Altman]

Hi Ken,

I hope I didn't scare you off too much. QTR is a good program and you can use it with a simple approach - you don't have to do the sort of techy stuff that I'm into. It's well worth a (free) look, and cheap to buy. There's also a support group on Yahoo.

When you use all the ink colors the prints tend to come out grainy in the highlights - that's mostly why people try other systems; the 3800 may be better on this than earlier machines, but I've no experience with it.

One thought with your Zia's is to try a little gold chloride in your mix. That pumps up the highlights and also the D-max, as I recall. It might be a way to get what you need without the dichromate. Don't use it with any Pt in the mix though - that does not work!

Ben

Thanks, Ben - looks like you've been doing some far deeper exploration of the use of QTR than I can contemplate doing at present, especially not owning a densitometer. Very interesting, nonetheless.

I think for the time being I will continue to try and derive a workable combination of a PS curve and use of dichromate in my zia mix - druther not use the latter because of increased exposure time, but I'll see how it goes. I would like to get to the point where I'm using QTR to generate my negatives, though.

cheers,
Ken