Entry level MF camera

DBP · Jul 2, 2006

Good point. If you aren't doing your own printing, 6x9 can pose some problems. I get around it for color by shooting transparencies and then engaging in processes better not discussed here. For black and white, old 2x3 enlargers are not hard to come by.

k_jupiter · Jul 2, 2006

In addition to what has been said, my ZI nettar (1950's) 517 and 518's blow my Nikon FM2 out of the water, even though it only has zone focusing. A Nettar should run you about 20 - 30 bucks in great shape. You want the 517/16 or 518/16, not the /2. 6x6 is a wonderful format. cut it, crop it, use it as it is...

ZI bellows are pretty tough. I have had issues with the Agfa bellows, but never a light leak with a Zeiss Ikon.

On the other hand... a good Mamiya C220 or even an old C3 will last you just about forever if you take care of it. I would be careful you don't get a wedding photographer flogtoy. Those people can be brutal on a piece of equipment *G*. I have a C220 that has served me well for 12 years plus, I have a C3 that was obviously ridden hard and put away wet as it has issues with film advance and occasional gear slippage on the focus racks. But what a camera! With Mamiya lens you WON'T be able to tell the diff between a photo shot with your Mamiya and a Hassy. (JMHO)

So decide how deep you want to jump in. If jist a little, get a zone focusing Zeiss Nettar, if serious, get a Mamiya C series.

Of course, the Yashicas are very nice cameras as long as no one has mucked with the shutters on them. I have a 635 that I am fond of, but I usually use it in 135 mode as I like that lens with the smaller format. And with the Mamiyas around, why would I shoot 120 with the yashica?

tim in san jose

kb244 · Jul 2, 2006

mitspooner said:
Mike - I would check what your local lab can do. Mine can't do 6x9 anymore and some days I don't feel like scanning rolls of film. I started of with a Yashicamat and haven't looked back. There are some great deals here in Canada as there is not as many buyers running around scooping up stuff. With all MF stuff I have picked up I still shoot my 'mat all the time.

If they can do 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x7, its bullshit if they cant do 6x9, its roll film just develop it all the same. And if its because they cant 'cut' it, just ask for the roll uncut, its not like its 'that' hard, I always ask my local lab ( when I have last used them ) to just give the roll back developed, untouched, and uncut.

mitspooner · Jul 2, 2006

Yeah they can't print the 6x9 but they still will process it for me. It seem to be they way that most places are going. Took me two weeks to find some one who would do 4x5 C-41 in town.

kb244 · Jul 2, 2006

k_jupiter said:
...But what a camera! With Mamiya lens you WON'T be able to tell the diff between a photo shot with your Mamiya and a Hassy. (JMHO)

I beg to differ, but thats your own opinion, I have a C3 with a 65mm and 105mm lens, they dont stack up as well to the 90mm f/3.8C (or 180mm f/4.5) I have on my RB67 (though pretty damn close), and both the C3 and my RB67 are not as sharp ( though one could never tell unless you printed larger than 11x14) than a Hassy 500 with a Carl Zeiss T* Planar 80mm f/2.8.

Course saying X camera is Sharper than Y Camera is a bit ambigous, since you can buy a Hassy with cheaper grade glass, as well as buying a Mamiya RB with high end glass.

End the end we shouldnt quibble about quality as cameras mentioned today Mamiya RB67, Hassy, Yashica, Rollei, Nettars, Mamiya TLRs, so forth are all going to deliver good quality. The main thing that differs between them is how you shoot, what feels comfortable for you, are you comfortable with a big tank, a medium MF SLR, a tiny folder, a light TLR, a heavy TLR. Do you prefer to shoot looking down, straight ahead (upside down? lol). Do you have the need to change out lens or will you be happy with a one-in-all package. These are kinds of questions you need to ask yourself first, if you were local I'd let you get a feel for most of the equipment I have, hell if you were local and wanted to go out shooting sometimes and had a roll of b&w I'd develop it for you to see the results. One thing I've noticed is yer not gona find too many people letting others hold their hassies or rolleis.

Greg_E · Jul 2, 2006

One thing to note about the TLRs is that the focus of the viewing lens can be adjusted to match the taking lens. That also means that sometimes they get out of sink and need to be corrected.

battra92 · Jul 3, 2006

Greg_E said:
One thing to note about the TLRs is that the focus of the viewing lens can be adjusted to match the taking lens. That also means that sometimes they get out of sink and need to be corrected.

That's a good point. Of course with any old camera it's a good idea to double check with a tape measure and if need be, recalibrate.

Greg_E · Jul 3, 2006

Actually, the focus scale is normally "out of whack" too, so it's best to get a ground glass and magnifyer out and make sure it is correct at the film plane, Then you make the viewing lens match the taking lens. I have a Rolleicord that I may have to right off some of the focus parts. It obviously was dropped on the lenses, and parts are bent. Of course some "ham fisted" repair goon just bashed it back together, causing a lack of infinity focus, and more damage. This camera obviously saw better days, and I'll probably have to put it out of it's misery. It did provide a few parts for another camera, so it isn't all a loss. That and giving me a shutter to learn about and repair so that I can get the good body working back to 100%.

Phillip P. Dimor · Jul 3, 2006

I had great results with a cheap tlr, a Tower TLR. Red window advance, nice sharp lens though. Especially at f8, I think now that it might even be sharper than my hassy Oddly enough..

eubielicious · Jul 3, 2006

battra92 said:
Do you know where the leak is? It might be an easy fix.

By the way, Penfold was one cool sidekick!

I think the leak was due to the back being a bit loose. In actual fact I got rid of that one and got another later on, which seems much better, although I have yet to develop a film with it at which point I'll know better!

Euan

PS I agree with you about Penfold... "Good Grief!"

battra92 · Jul 6, 2006

eubielicious said:
I think the leak was due to the back being a bit loose. In actual fact I got rid of that one and got another later on, which seems much better, although I have yet to develop a film with it at which point I'll know better!

Sounds like a plan! I'm, not sure how to fix a back except maybe using some black gaffer's tape but of course, that's just a band-aid.

PS I agree with you about Penfold... "Good Grief!"

Great stuff that show. It reminds me when I saw it in reruns as an 80s kid.

Phillip P. Dimor · Jul 6, 2006

4x5 c41 in town? Lucky! I work at a one-hour lab and we don't do 4x5 anything.
Actually, i've never heard of anyone, save for one man (bless him) who mentioned anything about a large format camera. Sigh.

We develop 120-anything. We print 6x9 but crop it to 6x7 as we don't have a 6x9 mask.

Folders are fun!

Claire Senft · Jul 6, 2006

It is very difficult tadvise anyone on which camera to get in a different format size without having some idea of what they wish to accomplish. It may be good to say that I wish to produce a very fine 8x10 or 11x14 to be displayed on the wall that results from doing street photography. Having made that rational I can then think about which camera(s) will allow me to reach my goal. If it is a small, medium or large format choose the instrument that best fits your goal and methodology while remaining within your means. To me this is a better approach than to say I have $125.00 to spend on a mesium format camera. Which camera do you recomend that I buy. It is entirely possible that all of them are poor choices for what you wish to do.

fatboy22 · Jul 6, 2006

Hi Mike,
Check out Bronica S2A or Bronica C cameras from the late sixties, early 70's. I have bought 4 of these now and never had a problem. They are built like tanks. I will warn you , when you fire the shutter the first time it is very loud. Some people are startled by this. They have great Nikkor lenses that go with them, there is a lot of info about them for free on the web. I have bought a S2A for as little as $90 or as much as $400, depends what they come with.
Collecting Bronica gear is addictive! Cheap and well built!

Jamie

MikeM1977 · Jul 7, 2006

kb244 said:
I beg to differ, but thats your own opinion, I have a C3 with a 65mm and 105mm lens, they dont stack up as well to the 90mm f/3.8C (or 180mm f/4.5) I have on my RB67 (though pretty damn close), and both the C3 and my RB67 are not as sharp ( though one could never tell unless you printed larger than 11x14) than a Hassy 500 with a Carl Zeiss T* Planar 80mm f/2.8.

Course saying X camera is Sharper than Y Camera is a bit ambigous, since you can buy a Hassy with cheaper grade glass, as well as buying a Mamiya RB with high end glass.

End the end we shouldnt quibble about quality as cameras mentioned today Mamiya RB67, Hassy, Yashica, Rollei, Nettars, Mamiya TLRs, so forth are all going to deliver good quality. The main thing that differs between them is how you shoot, what feels comfortable for you, are you comfortable with a big tank, a medium MF SLR, a tiny folder, a light TLR, a heavy TLR. Do you prefer to shoot looking down, straight ahead (upside down? lol). Do you have the need to change out lens or will you be happy with a one-in-all package. These are kinds of questions you need to ask yourself first, if you were local I'd let you get a feel for most of the equipment I have, hell if you were local and wanted to go out shooting sometimes and had a roll of b&w I'd develop it for you to see the results. One thing I've noticed is yer not gona find too many people letting others hold their hassies or rolleis.

I just acquired a Mamiya C220 with a late-model "blue dot" 80mm lens. This lens is very very SHARP. I don't own a Hassy, but I was blown away by the results of this lens and can't imagine a Hassy/Zeiss being much better. Way better than a YashicaMat I used to own and a Nettar I have. I shoot mostly 4x5 with very-sharp Symmar lenses. I can still tell a difference even at 8x10" enlargements, but with this Mamiya lens, the difference is more subtle than I've ever seen.

The other lens I have for my C220 is a 135mm (tessar design), and this just does not compare to the late-model "blue dot".

My interest in MF has been revitalized with this camera.

rjs003 · Jul 7, 2006

I don't mean to hi jack this thread but, I was wondering what is the general take on the Kowa 6? Good Bad Don't bother and why; other then they are no longer made. All of my present cameras are out of production and most companies that produced them are no longer in business.

Drew B. · Jul 7, 2006

rjs003 said:
I don't mean to hi jack this thread but, I was wondering what is the general take on the Kowa 6? Good Bad Don't bother and why; other then they are no longer made. All of my present cameras are out of production and most companies that produced them are no longer in business.

I almost bought one a couple years ago...it was all chrome and looked great! Price was right ($450 w/three lenses) ...but for some reason, I walked away to my wife's pleasure! If you can get it at a better price than I, i'd say buy it.

Entry level MF camera

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