Entry into 4x5 questions

Chuck_P · Mar 11, 2007

I was in the field today photographing with my RB, and today, just as the last few times out, I found myself thinking about a 4x5 view camera. I was thinking how wonderful it would be to correct the convergence issues and the like. Bottomline is that I'm in the field with one camera wishing I had another.

So, assuming that I were to make a leap from 6x7cm to 4x5 inches, what would be the minimum equipment needs, besides a 4x5 camera, that I would need, I mean any "must haves" to photograph and process the film. I will worry about enlargement later, but just to photograph and develop. I would want a 4x5 view camera with with full adjustment capabilities that is practical to use in the field; I have read that some 4x5 field cameras do not have the full range of adjustments.

Thanks for any info.
Chuck

glbeas · Mar 11, 2007

Theres been a lot of discussion on this, so do a search in the forums for old threads. Best bet would be a foldup field camera such as Anba Ikeda (the lightest made), Ebony or Wista among others, a lens with board such as a f/5.6 150mm which is a wide normal, loupe, darkcloth, tripod, meter, cable release and filmholders along with a backpack they will fit in. You can start out by tray processing the film.

Bob F. · Mar 11, 2007

Basic kit: Camera; lens(es) on lens board(s); film holders; loupe; dark-cloth. Plus the usual stuff: cable release, filters, tripod, meter etc that you probably already have for your RB. To save weight (but empty your wallet more rapidly) you could look at the Readyload and/or Quickload systems.

Developing: I use a Jobo with 25xx series tanks and reels. This is an area where there are quite a few options from the almost free (but skill required) dishes, through various rotary tube systems, to the more expensive but well regarded Jobo Expert drum system.

If you do not have a darkroom, a very large changing bag will be needed to load the film holders - one of the tent style models would make life easier.

As for movements, you will need to decide how much is enough for your purposes; not easy until you start to use one - Catch-22... Some field cameras are more flexible than others with more movements: some have interchangeable bellows, some not; some are more rigid than others; some have rear movements, some have little or none; some will happily work with a 90mm lens, some will need a bellows change or a recessed lens board (not recommended - can be awkward to use).

Choice of camera is probably the biggest subject in LF - you will probably not get it right the first time so make sure you can subsequently sell it at little loss. Luckily, everything else can be used on the camera you replace it with - worst case: you might need new lens board(s).

In general, any field camera will provide enough movements for landscape work, but may run out of movements with architectural work, in which case you may need a monorail system and a wider coverage lens. Press cameras such as the Graphics do not normally have the full range of movements of a field camera, so again, may not be suitable for your needs, but otherwise, are probably a good entry point.

Have fun, Bob.

davekarp · Mar 12, 2007

Its tons of fun. Check out www.lfphoto.info for lots of articles that will help. Also check out "Using the View Camera" by Steve Simmons and/or "A User's Guide to the View Camera" by Jim Stone.

Donald Miller · Mar 12, 2007

If you are serious about getting into 4X5, PM me I have everything that you need from lenses (Schneider) to camera (Zone VI wood field). I even have a spare enlarger (Saunders 4550 VCCE XLG with lens). I only lack an easel and tripod to complete a full outfit.

My recent move to 5X7 has left me with a fair amount of excess equipment.

Chuck_P · Mar 12, 2007

Donald Miller said:
If you are serious about getting into 4X5, PM me I have everything that you need from lenses (Schneider) to camera (Zone VI wood field). I even have a spare enlarger (Saunders 4550 VCCE XLG with lens). I only lack an easel and tripod to complete a full outfit.

My recent move to 5X7 has left me with a fair amount of excess equipment.

Donald,

Thanks. But I'm really just trying to get some feel for what is needed and I really wish that I was serious enough t this point to take you up on that offer. The few posts here have done a lot to answer my questions.

Thanks again,
Chuck

papagene · Mar 12, 2007

Chuck
Besides the stunning results you can get with a LF camera, they are a lot of fun to use. I feel the most connect to the whole process with LF gear - and I enjoy using my Fuji mf rangefinders very much also.

gene

argus · Mar 13, 2007

starting LF can be cheap but once the GAS hits you, you're lost!

To photograph in the field, a monorail is bulky, takes more time to set up, but could offer all movements. You will quickly find out that you don't need them all. A folding field camera will suffice, unless you like wide lenses.

G

glbeas · Mar 13, 2007

I have a 65mm on a recessed board that does just fine on the old Anba Ikeda and on my new Ebony. That wide enough?

D Dahl · Mar 13, 2007

Chuck,

I was in your position just over a year ago, itching to get into 4X5 but thinking it was probably too expensive and equipment intensive. Luckily I ran into a local photographer who was ditching his 4X5. I got his Calumet CC404 with 3 lensboards, a Grafmatic back and a couple film holders, and a Peak loupe for $80! For a dark cloth, I used a zip-up windbreaker jacket and it worked great. The tripod I used for the RB holds the Calumet fine. It's addicting! I recently bought a Calumet Woodfield folder from KEH and a few lensboards and now my RB just sits in it's pelican case. I develop in a Jobo tank with a reel that holds 6 sheets. Minimal equipment, but it's a blast!
DO IT!

k_jupiter · Mar 14, 2007

Shooting... B&J Field Camera. Fuji 150 5.6 or 6.3 lens (or equivalent). Good quality tripod. LunaPro light meter. Black cloth for focusing. Loupe. Half dozen type 5 film holders.

Developing... UniDrum with motor base... or Paterson Series 6 with fluorescent light tube protectors to load your film in... or Jobo 2500 series with 6 sheet film carrier... or set of 5x7 trays and a very dark room. Standard developing rig (thermometer, graduated cylinders, etc) Good timer.

Printing... Beseler 45mx with a good Schneider 150 lens. Good easel, set of trays.

The cheapest setup, yet 1000 times better than Atget used. Are you better than Atget?

*L*
tim in san jose

BradS · Mar 14, 2007

k_jupiter said:
... or Paterson tank with fluorescent light tube protectors ...

*L*
tim in san jose

Great idea tim. Thanks.

Chuck_P · Mar 17, 2007

argus said:
starting LF can be cheap but once the GAS hits you, you're lost!

To photograph in the field, a monorail is bulky, takes more time to set up, but could offer all movements. You will quickly find out that you don't need them all. A folding field camera will suffice, unless you like wide lenses.

G

Argus,

I've been doing some more thinking on the 4x5 issue and I keep coming back to your statement that I will quickly find out that I won't need all the movements a view camera can offer. Could you elaborate on this statement a bit.

Thanks.

Chuck

Mark_S · Mar 17, 2007

Chuck1 said:
I will quickly find out that I won't need all the movements a view camera can offer. Could you elaborate on this statement a bit.

I first got into LF when I was loaned a speed graphic outfit, I ended up falling in love with the large negs, and upgraded my darkroom to handle them. When the camera was reclaimed by its earlier owner, I bought a field camera which had a lot more movements, which I find that I rarely use. I do mostly landscape photography, and for that, you don't need a lot of movements.

Minimum outift (lowest cost) is probably a press camera (speed graphic or similar) with a lens, a couple of film holders, and a dark place to load the holders- you can process film in trays.

Nick Zentena · Mar 17, 2007

A monorail is sort of like a semi-truck. Great if you need all that it provides. But many things work just fine with a pickup. A field camera is more of a pickup.

Chuck_P · Mar 17, 2007

Alright,

I see what you guys are getting at, but forgive my ignorance on it and idulge me in one more question. If you have AA's "The Camera", go to pages 154 and 160 and see the photo of "Roots, Hawaii" and "Stream, Sea, and Clouds". Can the field camera that you mention permit me photographs like this? I'm not big on landscapes, but more into the close-in and intimate type photos like the one I refer you to.

Thanks for your advice.

Chuck

glbeas · Mar 17, 2007

Usually you need no more than front movements, rise and tilt, for landscape. The rise to keep the trees looking vertical and tilt to lean your focal plane over to get the foreground in focus and the horizon at the same time. Anything more is usually involved with architectural style images.

Jim Jones · Mar 17, 2007

Consider a 5x7 when camera shopping . The 5x7 Burke and James I bought decades ago still suffices with a 4x5 back. The longer bellows is handy, and it isn't much heavier than a 4x5.

MikeM1977 · Mar 17, 2007

4-5 Film Holders. Cable release. Tripod. Dark cloth (DIY item).

I find a changing tent convenient for loading film when my darkroom isn't dark enough (during the day .

A focusing loupe. I made my own out of a PVC pipe connector and by taking an element out of an old lens.

I use a Shen Hao. It gives quite a bit of bang for the buck. I bought the accessory bag bellows ($90 item) for when I really want front rise with my 90mm lens.

I use 5x7 trays for development. One sheet at a time. Otherwise I use an 8x10 tray with a slosher to develop 4 sheets at a time. I will never try developing multiple sheets in a tray without a slosher. I tried and I tried and I tried, but I could never get scratch-free results.

4x5 is frustrating as hell. I vacuum my holders, but I still get dust flecks in my negatives.

vet173 · Mar 18, 2007

What ever camera you get make your first lens a 210 and shoot nothing but it for a year. It will force you into seeing a way to make the shot other than just angle of view. Pay that dues and you will be rewarded for the rest of your life with the ability to see things in a way that you wouldn't if you just change lenses. I have no use for a standard focal length. It's always to short or long for anything.

Ole · Mar 18, 2007

Start cheap.

It should be possible to get a Speed Graphic, usable lens and a couple if film holders for under $200.

The Speed doesn't have much in the way of movements, but it has the advantage of being ubiquitous and cheap. Oh - and solid and rugged. If you get a Speed instead of a Crown or whatever they're called, you don't even need a shutter in the lens. That means you can use just about any lens you can get your hands on, down to $10 unidentified brass thingies. I bought a Speed for $56 just for that purpose! Some of those old brass things are really nice, by the way...

Vet's advice is good, but I wouldn't recommend this or that focal length. Instead I'd recommend that you think about what kind of focal length you prefer using, and start with something that gives a somewhat similar field of view. And don't be surprised if your preferences change over time - I started with "longish normal", and now use more than 50% "ridiculously wide".

Chuck_P · Mar 18, 2007

I just got back from photgraphing in the woods today. Apart from the difficult lighting conditions on the order of around 128:1 all day long (which I deal with currently by switching backs for different planned development for the high SBR shots and the shots in full shadow low SBR's) there were situations where convergence issues could not be dealt with. I don't know when and I don't just exactly know how, but I'm on a mission from this minute forward to enter LF.

So, I'm listening intently to the adice given here and would appreciate any more that is provided.

Thanks again,
Chuck

Chuck_P · Mar 18, 2007

I meant to also say in my previous post that I have been doing a lot, I mean a lot of research on the different LF cameras. I can solidly say that I really think a camera with some rear movements would be worth the extra "bills" (within my personal limits of course) and thus a bit more time saving the money. Some have said that I won't need, but having it when I do want it could be priceless, it seems, from a "image management" point of view of course. So, I will be in search of a adequate used camera that will give me some rear movements.

I have a Bogen/Manfrotto 3221 WN tripod with a 3047 head. It does very well with my RB and I'm certainly hoping it will suffice for a 4x5 as well.

Still interested in thoughts.

Chuck

glbeas · Mar 18, 2007

Your RB is heavier than most field cameras and as heavy as many monorails so it should suffice quite nicely.
On another note I have a beater Anba Ikeda I'd let you have pretty cheap so you can get into LF cheaper. You'd just need to get or make some lens boards and find a decent lens to go with it and a few filmholders.

removed account4 · Mar 19, 2007

Jim Jones said:
Consider a 5x7 when camera shopping . The 5x7 Burke and James I bought decades ago still suffices with a 4x5 back. The longer bellows is handy, and it isn't much heavier than a 4x5.

YES!

john

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