ENTROPY

removed account4 · Nov 3, 2013

does anyone (else) allow entropy into their photo making technique?

if so, what do you do, what are you against doing and what does it do for your work?

AgX · Nov 3, 2013

What do you mean by that? No definition of entropy used over here seems to fit. Or... I'm lacking imagination again.

ntenny · Nov 3, 2013

I didn't learn much from the thermodynamics portions of my physics courses, but one thing I did catch is that entropy is not optional!

-NT

NedL · Nov 3, 2013

John, I'm not sure this is what you mean but I think solargraphs are more like "finding" a picture than "making" one. They reflect all the day to day variation and a stretch of time that will never happen again, ever. Plus temperature/humidity/clouds/fogginess/curl/shadows/wind/hail/rain/snow and a big dollop of luck. Like opening a present that you have no idea what it will be.

( I've got an album with some solargraphs at the link in my "signature" below, but these are very shhhhh hybrid, so we won't talk about them here. )

ROL · Nov 3, 2013

I keep an aging photo of myself in a darkened closet (i.e., color, of course ). Kind of the Dorian Grey reverse of archival qualities.

pstake · Nov 3, 2013

If you mean entropy, as in, allowing for happy accidents, then yes.

I experiment and take notes and when I find what I like, i keep thos notes as my method for later. And later, if I do something wrong (inevitable, just ask my girlfriend), then I make a note of how I did it.

semi-ambivalent · Nov 3, 2013

ROL said:
I keep an aging photo of myself in a darkened closet (i.e., color, of course ). Kind of the Dorian Grey reverse of archival qualities.

Do you cringe, knowing not only that the subject of the photograph will always be younger than you, but the photograph will as well? (I keep images of myself to a minimum, while supplying others with future proof of their decline.)

Time is intolerant of
The brave and innocent.
And indifferent in a week
To a beautiful physique.

-W.H. Auden

Poisson Du Jour · Nov 3, 2013

Not a very common word, but I remember from uni that it has something to do with a decline into disorderliness and derangement of predictability. Neither nor both are desirable in my work where there is a structured approach and the element of surprise that often makes a shoot so memorable (and often, memorable for all the wrong reasons). Entropy is also an active clinical characteristic in people with Alzheimers. This should be interesting. Sorry, what was the question??

Alan Klein · Nov 3, 2013

John: Get a woman half your age. It may not prevent entropy with your photography. But, then, you may not care.

StoneNYC · Nov 4, 2013

Alan, haha!

I'm very precise with my dev mixtures, and temperature, but every now and then I'm thinking of a photograph, and end up developing shorter or longer than I had planned because I feel like that one photograph that was my favorite, might come out better, but it's more a feeling than planned, however I always notate what the time was of course

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 4, 2013

I think I will experience lots of enthropy with my 8mm photographs.

removed account4 · Nov 4, 2013

hi Agx
sorry for being vague ...
i mean the exact opposite of obsessive-exactitude ( if that is a word? ) ..

love those entropic solargraphs ned
john

StoneNYC · Nov 4, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
John, I don't think entropy was a good word for this. Colloquially people tend to use the word entropy to signify any tendency toward disorder or randomness, so originally I assumed you were asking about leaving things to complete chance without a pre-defined image or result in mind - eg: point the camera anywhere without viewing, leave the shutter open for two days and "see what happens", or on the technical side - dump some coffee into spent A130 and "see what happens". That sort of thing. But I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

I tease john a lot because many of his abstracts look just like your description hehe

However I know John is a very skilled manipulator of image and light.

removed account4 · Nov 4, 2013

hi michael

i wouldn't say 2 days and see what happens mainly because i am too impatient but yes, exactly ..

thanks stone!
john

cliveh · Nov 4, 2013

I think stabilised photogenic drawings may come under this heading, as would Anthotypes.

blansky · Nov 4, 2013

You want entropy, photograph children.

David Brown · Nov 4, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
... leaving things to complete chance without a pre-defined image or result in mind - eg: point the camera anywhere without viewing, ... and "see what happens". That sort of thing.

jnanian said:
... yes, exactly ...

I don't go quite that far, but I do freely admit that for all my careful planning, framing, and exposure measurement, many of my best photographs have ended up being nothing like my "visualization" at the time the shutter fired. Happy accidents is probably a good term. Add to the "accidents" the deliberate manipulations that occur once in the darkroom, and there ya are ...

Blighty · Nov 4, 2013

'Serendipity' springs to mind.

John Earley · Nov 4, 2013

Entropy: Sending your film to a less than stellar lab and getting back someone elses photos.

dasBlute · Nov 4, 2013

"Nobody knows what entropy really is, so in a debate you will always have the advantage."
- von neumann to shannon

I need some more entropy in my approach , I seem way too obsessive about sharpness and perfect negs...

Gerald C Koch · Nov 4, 2013

Entropy is defined as a measure of the disorder (randomness) of a system. As such it is a very basic concept which is not confined to only thermodynamic systems. Consider a jar filled with equal numbers of black and white marbles. The black marbles are at the bottom of the jar. Shake the jar and we increase the entropy since some white marbles are now where blacks were and vice versa. The order of the system has been changed.

Using statistical mechanics equations representing the three laws of thermodynamics can be derived using only pure mathematics without any reference to physical reality.

Black Dog · Nov 4, 2013

Entropy:what your darkroom looks like after various members of your family have dumped all their junk in there!:w00t::crazy:

E. von Hoegh · Nov 4, 2013

ntenny said:
I didn't learn much from the thermodynamics portions of my physics courses, but one thing I did catch is that entropy is not optional!

-NT

No, not in a closed system anyway. Without entropy, energy couldn't be utilised, photographic processes wouldn't work, and time would have no direction.
That said, I allow as little chaos (disorder, what I think you meant by entropy) into my work as possible.

MattKing · Nov 4, 2013

Black Dog said:
Entropy:what your darkroom looks like after various members of your family have dumped all their junk in there!:w00t::crazy:

Except that seems more like enthalpy, because it grows, and grows, and grows .

I prefer to think about it as the end of day result of a day that began with lots of plans and intentions.

jovo · Nov 4, 2013

John, you have enticed a number of left brain heavyweights into what I started to understand was a seriously right brain question. I respect their intellect deeply, but their comments make my hair hurt. If you're asking whether your photographic approach is shared by others, no, I don't think it is. But, it's so you that I don't even look beyond the thumbnail to recognize a 'Nanian', and that is an indelible style that's courageous and independent whether or not I like the particular 'graph.

ENTROPY

removed account4

AgX

ntenny

NedL

ROL

pstake

semi-ambivalent

Poisson Du Jour

Alan Klein

StoneNYC

Mustafa Umut Sarac

removed account4

StoneNYC

removed account4

cliveh

blansky

David Brown

Blighty

John Earley

dasBlute

Gerald C Koch

Black Dog

E. von Hoegh

MattKing

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jovo

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