entering the MF world

francesco1 · Dec 26, 2014

Hello allI am venturing into the realm of MF with the desire to purchase a Mamiya RZ67 pro 11 system. I have noticed a wide range of pricing for this camera, as well as posted concerns about fungus and clouding of lens. Is there a way to evaluate these situationsobviously not if purchasing on line.
My interest is to do architectural work and I am absolutely a babe in the woods when it comes to this format style of photography. I figure to start in this is to get 2 - 120 film backs, a light meter,or a metered view finder, a 65mm uld or m-LA lens and a 90mm or 110mm lens. A tripod (of course) as I am fairly strong but not a gorilla capable of manhandling this system. A light system or try-flash rack. Any guidance that can be offered in my journey is greatly appreciated.

francesco1 · Dec 26, 2014

OK…just read the earlier post about the 50mm vs. 65mm. So I am switching my first lens to the 50mm. thanks to everyone who contributed to that dilemma. So the question arise what should be my second lens?

Rich Ullsmith · Dec 26, 2014

Don't mean to discourage you from the Mamiya, but when I think of architectural photography I think of perspective control through lens and film plane movements, and these things cannot be done with the system you are looking at. I don't know it there is a bellows for this camera.

Would you consider a field camera and step up to 4X5?

Kirks518 · Dec 26, 2014

That's my thread you're referring to, and I've decided on the 50mm.

For architectural work, as stated above, perspective control is going to be key. I'm new to MF myself, so I may not know all the systems, but you may want to look at a system that has either a perspective-control bellows, or a system that has a tilt-shift lens available.

A quick search found that the RZ67 has an available tilt/shift adapter, but at a cost of about $1800. The Mamiya 645 has a T/S lens, but I'm not sure if I'd want the smaller format.

If you're doing architectural professionally, you may want to think of different system. If you're doing it for yourself, then the perspective control may not be much of a concern, and much of it can be fixed through (di6ital) post processing.

As for using the RZ (I have the RB), I would get a good light meter, preferably one with spot metering capabilities, over the metered prism. I have both a WLF and the Mamiya Prism 2, and recommend getting both a WLF and one of the prism finders. If the CDS prism is cheap enough, then get that, but I prefer to use a light meter.

For my 'normal' lens, I have the 90mm, and I'm quite happy with it. Either the 90 or 110 would be fine though.

95% of my shots have been handheld, and about 80% of those have come out just fine. But - a tripod really is as necessary with this system as film is, I'm just too lazy to carry it around with me. With a fastest shutter speed of only 1/400, and the massive weight of the system, a tripod or at least a monopod is necessary. As for which tripod, others I'm sure will chime in with specifics, but I'm using an older Velbon Sherpa, which so far has proved to be quite worthy for my needs.

You may also want to grab yourself a Polaroid back. My system included the Mamiya Polaroid back, and I really like it. There is also a P-back by NPC, but from what I know, it gives you an off-center image, and that would bug me. The P-back is also just a lot of fun to use.

One other accessory that I would STRONGLY recommend is a focusing screen other then the matte screen. Now much of this depends on how confident you are in your eyesight, but I just this morning got my rangefinder spot with split focus center, and I am now confident in my focusing abilities. With the original matte screen, I found I was missing focus, but I'm almost 50, and my eyes ain't what they used to be.

Other than that, I can't think of anything else I would tell you, other then to get something, and have fun!

Kirks518 · Dec 26, 2014

Just looked on the bay, and the tilt adapter for the RZ II can be had for around $500, so that makes it a bit more affordable.

Sirius Glass · Dec 26, 2014

Welcome to APUG

frank · Dec 26, 2014

Perspective control can be achieved nowadays with photoshop-like programs after the film is scanned. You can also correct keystoning in the darkroom by tilting the easel. Aren't tilt/shift lenses somewhat superfluous?

francesco1 · Dec 26, 2014

Thank you…had considered the T/S adaptor for a suitable lens. The metering advice i hadn't considered as far as multiple units but certainly makes sense.
I Currently I have an older Pentax SF1n Which I bought in 1989 when it came out..I love this camera and added a Sigma AF 70-300 1:4-5.6, an AF 50mm I use in low light B/W shoots. I too have eye issues having just turned 65. I had an opportunity to play with a Hassie when in college during my studies…thought that the MF was awesome…but never had any $$$$ so three 35mm bodies and 7 lens later carried me through for 6 years of all kinds of pics. I am not a big digital or photoshop capable individual though I do have a point and shot Nikon that fits the bill for family stuff. Thanks again

francesco1 · Dec 26, 2014

Hi Frank…thanks for the input…I agree just tilt the darn table…I won't have that option for a while since the darkroom isn't in the budget just yet.

francesco1 · Dec 26, 2014

Thank you…I agree with your quote whole heartedly and smiling…Just money…money…and more money. Kind of like a house…lol

francesco1 · Dec 26, 2014

I must have missed that. That certainly is closer in affordability.

locutus · Dec 26, 2014

If you want to do architecture and it has to be in medium format you can also consider a 6x9 Field Camera like a Horseman 980 or VH, most all movements you need.

Alan Gales · Dec 26, 2014

Kirks518 said:
Just looked on the bay, and the tilt adapter for the RZ II can be had for around $500, so that makes it a bit more affordable.

For $500.00 or less you could pick up a 4x5 monorail and a 90mm lens. A 90mm is a very popular wide angle for architecture on 4x5 and similar to a 25mm lens on a 35mm camera or a 50mm on an RZ.

I just wanted to let you know how cheap large format can be if you have any interest.

francesco1 · Dec 28, 2014

Thank you….will check that system.

francesco1 · Dec 28, 2014

Thank you….will check that system. Also appreciate the feedback on the monorail Ian.

Dan Quan · Dec 28, 2014

so leave in the light talk. seems pretty simple.

cjbecker · Dec 28, 2014

Given I have really never shot architectur. But yes it could be done without movements, as the man I assisted did. But It would make it much easer with rise and fall.

Firestarter · Dec 30, 2014

Even bulkier then the RZ but have you looked at the Fuji GX 680 MK2. Can be had for reasonable money and offers movements on the lens stage. Rotating back similar to the RZ also.

Tony-S · Dec 30, 2014

Mamiya sold an 50mm shift lens for its M645 system. There's on on KEH atm.

RedSun · Dec 31, 2014

You really have to decide on exactly what you want to do. All the standard cameras are cheap, be MF or LF, except the special gears. But you'll have to take into consideration of film, processing. And the most important is that, LF is totally different from MF, from focusing, photo composition to finish. There is a steep learning curve.

Try to borrow some cameras from friends. Or go to a camera show and get a feel of how the LF works. Then you decide.

I stay with Sinar and Bronica. The GS system has been excellent. It gets used more than the Sinar.

M Carter · Dec 31, 2014

Quick thoughts:

I really object to the idea that Photoshop is a replacement for camera movements. It's absolutely not. Especially when your needs include adjusting the plane of focus, which isn't always a huge deal in architecture but can give you amazing control in many uses. Camera movements let you sort of "see around" things - distorting an image in Photoshop or with easel tilts does not. If you want to do this properly, start out properly.

Shift lenses are nice, but they don't give you tilt. In my mind, tilt is huge - it's a glorious thing to have at your disposal.

The Fuji MF system - worth a look, it was a massive investment back in the day - you can get amazing quality for a song now. But research into powering the system, my vague understanding is you can be left hanging without a modern alternative to the proprietary batteries?

4x5 is a wonderful way to shoot architecture. Manual-movement (vs. geared) cameras are plentiful and affordable (lots of Cambos out there!). The biggest issue with 4x5 today is if you want to use polaroid to check focus, composition and exposure. There are a zillion 4x5 polaroid holders out there... because there's no more 4x5 polaroid. You'd need the pack-film style 4x5 polaroid back, which are out there daily - but about $200, possibly more than you'd pay for a used 4x5 setup if you shop around.

Do some research regarding smaller view camera formats, adapters for 120 roll film and polaroid to 4x5, etc. The RB and RZ are wonderful systems and again, compared to what they once cost, it's like stealing when you buy one. They're amazingly robust and generally require little maintenance - they're among the best systems for toughness and reliability out there. But they may not be the best for what interests you.

frank · Dec 31, 2014

No doubt a view camera is the way to go for architectural photography. But if you are doing it with medium format, I would not bother with a MF tilt/shift lens any more, absolutely not.

Sirius Glass · Dec 31, 2014

RedSun said:
You really have to decide on exactly what you want to do. All the standard cameras are cheap, be MF or LF, except the special gears. But you'll have to take into consideration of film, processing. And the most important is that, LF is totally different from MF, from focusing, photo composition to finish. There is a steep learning curve.

Try to borrow some cameras from friends. Or go to a camera show and get a feel of how the LF works. Then you decide.

I stay with Sinar and Bronica. The GS system has been excellent. It gets used more than the Sinar.

LF provides unlimited ways and means to really screw up a photograph.

Sirius Glass · Dec 31, 2014

M Carter said:
Quick thoughts:

I really object to the idea that Photoshop is a replacement for camera movements. It's absolutely not. Especially when your needs include adjusting the plane of focus, which isn't always a huge deal in architecture but can give you amazing control in many uses. Camera movements let you sort of "see around" things - distorting an image in Photoshop or with easel tilts does not. If you want to do this properly, start out properly.

Shift lenses are nice, but they don't give you tilt. In my mind, tilt is huge - it's a glorious thing to have at your disposal.

The Fuji MF system - worth a look, it was a massive investment back in the day - you can get amazing quality for a song now. But research into powering the system, my vague understanding is you can be left hanging without a modern alternative to the proprietary batteries?

4x5 is a wonderful way to shoot architecture. Manual-movement (vs. geared) cameras are plentiful and affordable (lots of Cambos out there!). The biggest issue with 4x5 today is if you want to use polaroid to check focus, composition and exposure. There are a zillion 4x5 polaroid holders out there... because there's no more 4x5 polaroid. You'd need the pack-film style 4x5 polaroid back, which are out there daily - but about $200, possibly more than you'd pay for a used 4x5 setup if you shop around.

Do some research regarding smaller view camera formats, adapters for 120 roll film and polaroid to 4x5, etc. The RB and RZ are wonderful systems and again, compared to what they once cost, it's like stealing when you buy one. They're amazingly robust and generally require little maintenance - they're among the best systems for toughness and reliability out there. But they may not be the best for what interests you.

+1
What Photo$hop does best is remove money from ones wallet. There is no substitute for lifts, tilts and swings.

frank · Dec 31, 2014

There's a free perspective control app. For wet dark rooms, tilt the easel.

Tilt/shift lenses are $.

Use a view camera.

I don't get the argument for 35mm or MF tilt/shift lenses. What am I missing?

entering the MF world

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