Enlarging lens shorter than 80mm that covers 6x7?

[Steve Goldstein]

I want to print a 20"x24" image (well, more like 19"x23" after considering the margins) from a 6x7 negative but 16"x20" is just about at the enlarger height limit with my 80mm EL-Nikkor. Wall or floor projection is impossible in my darkroom space. I do need to get right out to the edges in the long dimension but the image is somewhat panoramic so I don't need the very corners. I've seen conflicting info on the 60mm Rodagon-WA - the Prograf web page says 6x7 but Rodenstock literature I have says 6x6 (I confess I haven't tried one yet). Are there any other possibilities I should consider? The Schneider 60mm Apo-Componon-HM is listed as covering 6x4.5.

 

[Arvee]

Steve, I believe your only option is floor/wall projection. Any of the available enlarging lenses in the 60mm range simply won't have the coverage needed for 6x7 negatives. Also, I don't believe any of the 75mm lenses would cover 6x7 satisfactorily.

It seems to me if you have room to stand in front of the enlarger to work under normal circumstances, you would have sufficient room to turn the enlarger head 180 (putting counterweights on the baseboard) for floor projection where you would normally stand. Just thinking out loud....

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Fred, thanks for the suggestion but I don't think it'll work as my workspace is very small and awkward. I'll make some measurements and see what's possible, but I'm not optimistic. Hence my question.

I did have a private reply from someone who says he uses the 60mm Rodagon-WA so I'll have to see about that.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Yes, check out the WA series of lenses as they are your only choice for what you are after. I have two, one is a 80mm Schneider Componon-s WA and a 120mm Rodonstock Rodagon WA for 4x5. They are both excellent, but I lean towards the Rodenstock series WA's myself. They are the only game in town for large prints on baseboard.

 

[ic-racer]

The published datasheet for the HM-Componon 60mm Schneider only shows coverage data for a 60mm diagonal. That is less than 6x4.5 format. The data they give for a 25 power enlargement at F8 shows intensity is down to 60% at the corner of a 42mm square negative (30mm from center). Extrapolating those graphs is not reliable, but one could imagine that as far out as 45mm from center (half the approximate nominal diagonal of 6x7 format) the falloff will be pretty significant.

Bottom line: It is not a wide angle lens, it is a high-magnification lens. I don't know of any Componon wide angle lenses.

 

[Hilo]

which enlarger do you use and do you use an easel ?

 

[john_s]

Is there any possibility of inserting a spacer between the baseboard and the enlarger column, to in effect extend its height?

 

[paul ron]

i cant seem to find any information about WA lenses on the schneider site.

anyone point me in the right direction to the 80mm wa spec sheets?

 

[Steve Goldstein]

i cant seem to find any information about WA lenses on the schneider site.

anyone point me in the right direction to the 80mm wa spec sheets?

Here's the Schneider WA-Componon spec sheet

http://web.archive.org/web/20111011101154/http://schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/pdf/wa_componon.pdf

The 60mm is stated to cover 6x6 and they claim 6x9 for the 80.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Is there any possibility of inserting a spacer between the baseboard and the enlarger column, to in effect extend its height?

It's a Beseler 45MX, so it has four points of contact to the base support, not a single column.

A couple of folks have privately told me that the 60mm WA Rodagon will cover 6x7, so I'll explore that route. I won't be able to fit an easel but will have to just hold down the sheets by the edges with machined bar stock (it helps having friends who are machinists).

 

[paul ron]

Here's the Schneider WA-Componon spec sheet

http://web.archive.org/web/20111011101154/http://schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/pdf/wa_componon.pdf

The 60mm is stated to cover 6x6 and they claim 6x9 for the 80.

thank you.

 

[John Wiegerink]

It's a Beseler 45MX, so it has four points of contact to the base support, not a single column.

A couple of folks have privately told me that the 60mm WA Rodagon will cover 6x7, so I'll explore that route. I won't be able to fit an easel but will have to just hold down the sheets by the edges with machined bar stock (it helps having friends who are machinists).

I have heard the same thing, but have no experience with the 60mm WA Rodagon.

 

[darkroommike]

The 45M series Beseler enlargers have a way to tilt the enlarger for horizontal projection a bracket (which I now understand is an optional accessory, but maybe your enlarger already has one, else https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/111894-REG/Beseler_8128_45MXT_Wall_Projection_Bracket.html ) that allowed the lamp head to tilt to horizontal for wall projection, use a large pierce of iron for an easel and a few magnets to hold the paper flat. Failing that look for the old right angle front surface mirror that Omega used to make and mount that below a lens (reverse the negative in the carrier for proper right to left orientation.

And you're right, the 45M series might be the worst enlargers to try floor projection with but it can be done.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Mike, thanks for the pointer to that bracket. Wow, almost $160! I'll keep that in mind, though I don't think wall projection will buy me much because of the physical space where my enlarger sits. I'm now optimistic the 60mm WA Rodagon will meet my needs, and since I'd be projecting on the baseboard the alignment problem is already solved.

 

[Ian C]

Rodenstock rates its 60 mm f/4 Rodagon WA enlarging lens as usable within the magnification range of 4X – 15X for the 6 x 6 cm format.

http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/Archiv/e_Rodenstock_Printing_CCD_43-62__8230.pdf

A typical 6 x 6 cm format camera has film aperture of 56 mm x 56 mm. The diagonal is about 79.2 mm. At 15X we have a projected circle of good definition of at least 1187.9 mm for the 6 cm x 6 cm format (15 times the diagonal).

With this limit on the diameter of the projected image circle and the format dimensions of a typical 6 cm x 7 cm frame, we can determine the maximum magnification for proper coverage for this format using the 60/4 Rodagon WA lens. Using the Mamiya RZ67 as an example, the film aperture is 56 mm x 69.5 mm and the diagonal is 89.25 mm.

Maximum usable magnification = 1187.9 mm/89.25 mm = 13.3X for the 6 x 7 cm format. At 13.3X the projection of the 56 mm x 69.5 mm frame is 744.8 mm x 924.35 mm (29.3” x 36.39”).

Thus the 60/4 Rodagon WA is useable for enlarging the 6 cm x 7 cm format with good definition as rated by Rodenstock up to the above limits of magnification and projection size.

I tested this on my Omega D5XL with dichroic II head. I was able to make a 27” x 33.5 projection with my 60/4 Rodagon WA and a 6 x 7 cm negative. I couldn’t make a larger projection due the fully compassed bellows preventing placing the lens closer to the negative.

Since a print of 20” x 24” was the size wanted, this should work. I’ve used this lens to make a number of 16” x 20” prints from 6 x 7 cm negatives. The results were tha same as with any other high-grade lens.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Thank you Ian for checking this on your enlarger. At least I've got the lens part of my problem solved, now on to figure out how to pull this off in a tiny darkroom space in which I've only recently figured out how to manage 16x20!

 

[Ronald Moravec]

WA enlarger lenses seem to work terrible with condenser enlargers. I have two that work beautifully on my diffusion, but not worth beans on condensers. All are well aligned and have glass carriers.

For limited space, I used to use a drop table, basically an open box and the easel shelf drops into one of four slots. Construction accuracy is super critical to keep alignment in all positions.

 

[darkroommike]

Thank you Ian for checking this on your enlarger. At least I've got the lens part of my problem solved, now on to figure out how to pull this off in a tiny darkroom space in which I've only recently figured out how to manage 16x20!

How about a 20x24 color print processing tube (for RC)?

Once upon a time I did a 40x60 on Kodak Mural Paper R using a Richards tube processor. The tube was clear plastic with push on ends and the print was first wet the folded(!) emulsion side out and then rolled up with a separator sheet that looks exactly like the porous net that's used for air conditioner filters (open cell polyurethane perhaps). We used a more dilute Dektol to extend the processing time, stop bath (not recommended), fixed and then washed in a bath tub. The stop bath was not recommended, we were supposed to use a water stop,, but my boss rarely read instructions all the way through. The acid stop generated a lot of CO2 gas and the cap blew off spraying me with acetic acid, it was pretty dilute but it still stings in the eyes. I just pushed the cap back on and continued processing but had the boss take over agitation of the tube while I washed my face.

Something similar could be made with ABS or PVC pipe just be sure to put in a vent.

 

[M Carter]

The WA lenses could work for you, but man - is that like unicorn hunting?

Beseler made a table for the MX series; the enlarger mounted on it with the same bolts, but the center of the table - which was, functionally, the baseboard - could be removed, and slid into slots that went progressively lower, so you could get larger prints.

If you can sort of picture this in your mind, you should be able to build one (or find a handyman to do it). or if you're in north Texas, last I checked Don's used camera (Irving, TX) had a clean MXT with the table, asking $200 for all.

Here's the "Adjus-Table", still can be ordered apparently.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

This would be fiber-based paper, not RC, so a tube is right out. I've done the see-saw thing with 10x20 paper (cut down from 16x20 because the image is a panorama) in 12x16 trays and that worked out better than I'd expected, so I'd do the same with 12x24 paper. The problem is exposure, and from Ian's post I think the 60mm WA-Rodagon will work, primarily because of the panoramic aspect ratio so I can sacrifice the corners. Plus I use an Aristo diffusion head.

Unfortunately none of the table-type solutions will work to get more distance. My enlarger sits on a custom-built table that was partially assembled, slid down from above over a toilet, and then assembly completed in place. It renders the toilet unusable for its official purpose, though I can reach under to dump and flush. This is an incredibly constrained darkroom space, but by being creative I've made it work. Until a couple of months ago I didn't think it would be possible to manage 16x20 (or even 12x16) paper in there, now I know otherwise and am feeling even more ambitious, at least for this one special image.