Enlarger Lens Help!

KidA · Aug 4, 2015

So I'm fairly new to darkroom printing and so far have only done black and white at a facility in Toronto. I will start colour soon, once I find a good (and economical) way to keep the chemicals at a warm temp. Also, what I need to start any sort of printing at home is an enlarger lens. The only experience I have with lenses is the EL Nikkor 50mm 2.8. I don't really have anything else to compare with! Nor do I know how it reacts to colour prints.

What are your thoughts on 35mm neg enlarger lenses? I don't plan to spend too much money on it (many cheap options these days!), but if the results are much better, I will be glad to spend a few bucks more. If it's a question of 1-2 stops more to achieve almost indestinguishable results, I'll take my chances and save money (and loose a bit of time) and get a cheaper one. But if I need to go to f/11 to achieve what another lens does at f/4, then it might be worth the money and time.

I recently purchased a Rollei 6x7 CXL enlarger. Is there a focal length I can use for both MF and 35mm with my enlarger? That would be ideal... My biggest print sizes for now will be 11x14 but 95% of my work right now is 8x10. I might want to wall mount my enlarger to produce up to 16x20 one day, but that's probably far down the road.

Paul Howell · Aug 4, 2015

You really do need 2 lens, a 50mm for 35mm and a 90 for 6X7 or a 75 or 80 for 6X6. As you are planning on printing color a modern well coated lens is well worth the investment, an APO design is even better. Nikon, Fuji, Minolta all made very good 50mm 2.8 lens, then of course are the German. Bessler and Omega sold rebanded Germans lens which are very good. For keeping color chemistry at the proper temperature, some use hot water baths and keep adding hot or cold water to keep the chemistry at temp. If you look on ebay sometimes, an old Unicolor constraint temperature bath will show up. Not many were made, I have one I bought used years ago.

In terms of price, for black and white you can find Kodak Ektar and Wollensaks very inexpensive, both are 4 element and coated lens, I use a Wollensak 50mm F4 for black and white.

M Carter · Aug 4, 2015

For starters, there are probably a hundred threads on APUG alone about good enlarger lenses. Doing a search first and then asking specifics will get you more responses.

The Nikkor is a pretty legendary lens and is mentioned maybe a thousand times on APUG. It's my 35 lens in fact.

The EL Nikkor 80mm 5.6 will cover up to 6x7. I generally leave it on for 35 and MF, unless I'm printing very big from a 35mm neg. Very affordable, and you would probably need lab testing gear to see the difference between the Nikkor and whatever lens someone might say is "the best, most legendary" MF enlarger lens. You don't necessarily "need" a 35 and MF lens, but you can't get 16x20 from a 35mm neg & MF lens on many enlargers. But you already own a great 35 lens that doesn't need upgrading unless it's damaged.

There's not a lot of necessity to be thinking of "needing to go to F11". Many enlarger lenses are optimal at 5.6 or one or two stops closed. Lenses being delicate physical objects built by man, they all have variances - you need to do some simple tests to determine best aperture and corner sharpness.

There's a very knowledgable color thread on APUG, but a world of difference from B&W, particularly the challenges of printing color in this digital age. Some folks there may have specific ideas about lenses for color.

Once you get past 11x14, enlarger alignment and neg flatness become tremendous issues, in my experience. If you believe you'll go there eventually, keep an eye out for deals on large trays and keep in mind that counter space for 16x20 and 20x24 gets pretty ridiculous pretty fast!

Gerald C Koch · Aug 4, 2015

A Schneider 50 mm f/4 Componon would be a good choice. Wider lenses like f/2.8 are more expensive.

bdial · Aug 4, 2015

Ctein published tests of a number of enlarging lenses in Post Exposure
It's available from his website for free download; Post Exposure 2nd.book - Ctein

RalphLambrecht · Aug 4, 2015

I tested and compared numerousenlarging lenses from several brand-name manufacturers.For my own darkroom,I settled for EL Nikkors,because I felt that they are a good combination of quality and econonomy.As far as optical quality goes,I never found much difference between brands but often surprising differences between lenses of the same brand and type.In other words, I found that all name-brand, 6-element enlarging lenses are of high quality and very inexpensive nowadays.If you can try before you buy but the risk is minimal.For much more detailed information try to get a copy of Ctein's book 'Post exposure'Itmay aid you in making a good purchase.Good luck and remember:The APUG community is always here for you.

doug_morse · Aug 4, 2015

Get a 6 element lens. I recently upgraded my darkroom to print 16x20. I bought a Schneider Comparon 80mm lens for MF as I assumed the name was good. My enlargements were soft at the edges. Only then did I read up on forums and learned that Schneider and Rodenstock both make cheap and good lenses. I bought a Nikon 75mm f5.6 for £56 and sold my Schneider for £5 after my own tests convinced me I needed a better lens. Stopping down helps a lot but this size of enlargements can make for some long exposures and so stopping down may not be the best answer. A better lens can be opened up more and remain sharp. I also took my enlarger bulb from 75 watts to 150 watts. This is great for stopping down large prints and keeping exposures to less than a minute. I do struggle though now with very short exposures at 8x10 even at f22 and some are as short as 4 to 8 seconds which really is too short. I have only been doing this for a couple of years but this is what I have learned.

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RalphLambrecht · Aug 4, 2015

doug_morse said:
Get a 6 element lens. I recently upgraded my darkroom to print 16x20. I bought a Schneider Comparon 80mm lens for MF as I assumed the name was good. My enlargements were soft at the edges. Only then did I read up on forums and learned that Schneider and Rodenstock both make cheap and good lenses. I bought a Nikon 75mm f5.6 for £56 and sold my Schneider for £5 after my own tests convinced me I needed a better lens. Stopping down helps a lot but this size of enlargements can make for some long exposures and so stopping down may not be the best answer. A better lens can be opened up more and remain sharp. I also took my enlarger bulb from 75 watts to 150 watts. This is great for stopping down large prints and keeping exposures to less than a minute. I do struggle though now with very short exposures at 8x10 even at f22 and some are as short as 4 to 8 seconds which really is too short. I have only been doing this for a couple of years but this is what I have learned.

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That pretty much matches my experience as well. like an aperture and a mixing box that gets me to around 20s for a base exposure and then ,I work with f/stop printing in 1/6 stop increments around that

Paul Howell · Aug 4, 2015

Enlarging lens are optimized for different size enlargement, a lens designed for a 16X20 may not be as good for a 8X10. I have a Rodenstock Rogonar-S 4.5/135 that is excellent at 16X20 but my Wollensak pro raptar 135 is better at 8X10 and 11X14. If you plan on doing color, black and white up to 20x24 you will a set of lens.

ac12 · Aug 4, 2015

You can use a 90mm lens for both 35mm and 6x7.
But the projected 35mm image will be small and you likely cannot make an 11x14. Even an 8x10 may not be possible, if you can't get the head high enough. That is why the need for the 50mm lens.
In reverse, I used a 80mm lens on 35mm film to make small prints, and have the enlarger head at a more workable height, than close to the easel.

The price of good used lenses are so low that I would get both a 50mm and 90mm lens. Although, you could start with the 90mm lens and see if you can do what you want to do with it and 35mm film. Then make the decision to get the 50mm lens, if you decide you need to.
The el-Nikkors are a good choice. For the 50mm, get the 50mm/2.8 lens.

MattKing · Aug 4, 2015

90mm lenses can be slightly more difficult to find than other focal lengths.

If you have sufficient ceiling height and enlarger column height a 105mm lens may be easier to find. Otherwise, you may want to look for an 80mm that is designed for extra coverage - to 6x7.

Sirius Glass · Aug 4, 2015

PDH said:
You really do need 2 lens, a 50mm for 35mm and a 90 for 6X7 or a 75 or 80 for 6X6. As you are planning on printing color a modern well coated lens is well worth the investment, an APO design is even better. Nikon, Fuji, Minolta all made very good 50mm 2.8 lens, then of course are the German. Bessler and Omega sold rebanded Germans lens which are very good. For keeping color chemistry at the proper temperature, some use hot water baths and keep adding hot or cold water to keep the chemistry at temp. If you look on ebay sometimes, an old Unicolor constraint temperature bath will show up. Not many were made, I have one I bought used years ago.

In terms of price, for black and white you can find Kodak Ektar and Wollensaks very inexpensive, both are 4 element and coated lens, I use a Wollensak 50mm F4 for black and white.

The 50mm lens is a good lens. That is what I use for 35mm. You do not need to spend a lot of money for enlarging lenses. PDH has given some sage advice.

Jim Jones · Aug 4, 2015

I've used several 50mm f/2.8 El-Nikkors over 40 years. All were good. Illumination isn't perfectly even wide open, but these lenses perform well at f/4 if the enlarger is properly aligned. By f/8, diffraction limiting becomes perceptible with ultra fine grain film.

Sirius Glass · Aug 4, 2015

Jim Jones said:
I've used several 50mm f/2.8 El-Nikkors over 40 years. All were good. Illumination isn't perfectly even wide open, but these lenses perform well at f/4 if the enlarger is properly aligned. By f/8, diffraction limiting becomes perceptible with ultra fine grain film.

Usually work in the range of f/5.6 to f/11.

KidA · Aug 5, 2015

Thanks for all the help everyone! So for under $100 on eBay, on just going to go with the Nikkor.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 5, 2015

KidA said:
Thanks for all the help everyone! So for under $100 on eBay, on just going to go with the Nikkor.

Idon't think you'll be sorry with that;The ELNikkors are algood

DREW WILEY · Aug 7, 2015

There is a 63mm El Nikkor which is much better optically than their 50's. What I sometimes use for 35mm is a 75/4 El Nikkor. It's a lousy
medium format lens, but since only the center is used, just fine for 35mm and dirt cheap. Their better lens for 6x6 is the 75/5.6, though for
anything MF I prefer at least 105mm.

Pedro Pinto Basto · Apr 24, 2016

Hello,

Does anyone knows if I can enlarge a 6x4,5 negative with the Rogonar-S 105 mm f1:45? Our is better an 80mm lens?

Thank you,

Regards.

MattKing · Apr 24, 2016

Pedro Pinto Basto said:
Hello,

Does anyone knows if I can enlarge a 6x4,5 negative with the Rogonar-S 105 mm f1:45? Our is better an 80mm lens?

Thank you,

Regards.

It should work, but you will be limited with respect to how large you can make prints.

Depending on how tall your enlarger is, that may mean you are limited to 11x14 or maybe even 8x10 at a maximum.

Sirius Glass · Apr 24, 2016

The 105mm will work, but the 80mm lens will give you more flexibility with the enlarge head height and therefore range of enlargement size.

Luis-F-S · Apr 24, 2016

RalphLambrecht said:
I never found much difference between brands.....In other words, I found that all name-brand, 6-element enlarging lenses are of high quality and very inexpensive nowadays.

+1

mgb74 · Apr 24, 2016

And the longer the lens, the higher the enlarger head has to be for a given enlargement. Which typically means it's more susceptible to vibration unless anchored to the wall.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 24, 2016

KidA said:
So I'm fairly new to darkroom printing and so far have only done black and white at a facility in Toronto. I will start colour soon, once I find a good (and economical) way to keep the chemicals at a warm temp. Also, what I need to start any sort of printing at home is an enlarger lens. The only experience I have with lenses is the EL Nikkor 50mm 2.8. I don't really have anything else to compare with! Nor do I know how it reacts to colour prints.

What are your thoughts on 35mm neg enlarger lenses? I don't plan to spend too much money on it (many cheap options these days!), but if the results are much better, I will be glad to spend a few bucks more. If it's a question of 1-2 stops more to achieve almost indestinguishable results, I'll take my chances and save money (and loose a bit of time) and get a cheaper one. But if I need to go to f/11 to achieve what another lens does at f/4, then it might be worth the money and time.

I recently purchased a Rollei 6x7 CXL enlarger. Is there a focal length I can use for both MF and 35mm with my enlarger? That would be ideal... My biggest print sizes for now will be 11x14 but 95% of my work right now is 8x10. I might want to wall mount my enlarger to produce up to 16x20 one day, but that's probably far down the road.

EL Nikons are very good enlarging lenses and can easily compete with Schneider or Rodenstock.get a 50mm for 35mm and an 80mm for MF.wall mounting the enlarger is really worth it.To keep chemicals at temp, all you need is a cheap plastic tub and a fish tank heater;not a huge investment;back to the lenses;any 6-element name-brand lens will do.bad enlarging lenses are rare and good once are plentiful and cheap.

Pedro Pinto Basto · Apr 25, 2016

Hello,

Thanks for the awnsers.
Do you know if it is better a lenses 80 mm or a an 63 mm to enlarge an 6x4.5 cm?

JW PHOTO · Apr 25, 2016

Pedro Pinto Basto said:
Hello,

Thanks for the awnsers.
Do you know if it is better a lenses 80 mm or a an 63 mm to enlarge an 6x4.5 cm?

80mm would be better. The 63mm probably won't cover a 6.45 negative, but I have never tried so can't say for sure.

Enlarger Lens Help!

KidA

Paul Howell

M Carter

Gerald C Koch

bdial

RalphLambrecht

doug_morse

RalphLambrecht

Paul Howell

ac12

MattKing

Moderator

Sirius Glass

Jim Jones

Sirius Glass

KidA

RalphLambrecht

DREW WILEY

Pedro Pinto Basto

MattKing

Moderator

Sirius Glass

Luis-F-S

mgb74

RalphLambrecht

Pedro Pinto Basto

JW PHOTO

Enlarger Lens Help!

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