Enlarger lens for 120 film

[tbm]

I've performed a thorough search within APUG but cannot find a previous post re:

I have a Schneider 50mm enlarging lens and a Nikkor 80mm lens. Which one should I or must I use to print 120 film negatives?

 

[Bob F.]

Nikkor 80mm. 80mm is the standard focal length for printing 6x6cm.

Cheers, Bob.

 

[Nick Zentena]

What format? The Nikon is fine up to 6x7. But 6x9 will need longer.

 

[tbm]

Thank you, both of you!

Terry

 

[panastasia]

I've performed a thorough search within APUG but cannot find a previous post re:

I have a Schneider 50mm enlarging lens and a Nikkor 80mm lens. Which one should I or must I use to print 120 film negatives?

Use the camera standard lens focal length for each format as a guide but keep in mind that enlarging lenses with shorter focal lengths allow bigger enlargements for a given format. I've been using a 100mm for 6x7 - 6x9 and sometimes find a need for something shorter.

 

[haris]

80mm for MF up to 6x7cm.

 

[fschifano]

The 50 mm. lens is good for up to the standard 35 mm frame pf 24 x 36 mm. Often, you'll see that medium format up to 6 x 6 cm. is covered by an 80 mm. lens and that something a little longer is recommended for 6 x 7 cm. negatives. Well, the Nikkor is rated for up to 6 x 7 cm. negatives, so you're covered there. I use an 80 mm. Schneider Componon S for negatives up to 6 x 7 cm. and it works perfectly out to the corners of the frame once it is set two stops down from wide open. A 135 mm. lens is used with anything larger than 6 x 7 cm, up to 4 x 5 in.

 

[tbm]

Frank, I just discovered in my rolltop desk my never-used Schneider Comonon S 80mm enlarger lens that I'd forgotten I bought several years ago. Due to curiosity, I will use both it and the Nikkor with the same negatives to see which one produces a better print on Ilford's 8x10 inch glossy RC paper.

 

[mikebarger]

I actually like a 135mm for 6x6

Mike

 

[Anscojohn]

I have always believed in focal length "overkill". I have long used a 60 mm 5.6 Rodagon for 35mm, and a 105 5.6 Nikkor for 6x6 and 6x7.

 

[tbm]

Is 6x6 another name for 120 film? Pardon my naviety.

 

[Kino]

Frank, I just discovered in my rolltop desk my never-used Schneider Comonon S 80mm enlarger lens that I'd forgotten I bought several years ago. Due to curiosity, I will use both it and the Nikkor with the same negatives to see which one produces a better print on Ilford's 8x10 inch glossy RC paper.

Ooooh! That sounds a MAGIC roll top desk!

See if you can find a 4x10 camera floating around in there!

 

[Konical]

6 x 6

Is 6x6 another name for 120 film? Pardon my naviety.

It's the nominal centimeter equivalent of 2 1/4 x 2 1/4--in other words square negatives on 120.

Konical

 

[Anscojohn]

It's the nominal centimeter equivalent of 2 1/4 x 2 1/4--in other words square negatives on 120.

**********

Yes. It's all on 120 film. 6x4.5 cm is what we used to call "split Rollei"- 2 1/4 x 1 5/8. 6x7 is 2 1/4x2 3/4. And 6x9 is 2 1/4 x 3 1/4. Metric is easier, even for us ol' dinosaurs.

 

[MattKing]

It's the nominal centimeter equivalent of 2 1/4 x 2 1/4--in other words square negatives on 120.

**********

Yes. It's all on 120 film. 6x4.5 cm is what we used to call "split Rollei"- 2 1/4 x 1 5/8. 6x7 is 2 1/4x2 3/4. And 6x9 is 2 1/4 x 3 1/4. Metric is easier, even for us ol' dinosaurs.

In case it isn't obvious, the image area on the 120 film is (approximately) 6 cm wide. The various formats just use more or less of the length of the film for each shot.

There are also 6 x 8, 6 x12 and 6 x 17 cameras and/or film backs, they are just not so common.

Your enlarger lens needs to evenly cover a circle with a diameter at least as large as the diagonal of your film. That is the reason that longer lenses (which have more coverage) tend to be needed for the longer negatives.

Personally, I like using a 90mm enlarger lens, but they aren't quite as common as 80mm, and I rarely print larger than 11" x 14".

(sorry about the mix of metric and imperial measures)

Matt

 

[tbm]

Thank you, Matt!

 

[haris]

120 is name for roll film 6 cm wide. On 120 film, depending of camera and camera back one can get image sizes (in centimeters and nominal size, make note different cameras/backs give different real image size for same nominal size): 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, 6x9, 6x12, etc...

Of course, larger image size, lesss images, for example on one 120 film, camera (or camera back) which make 6x4.5 have 16 images, 6x6 have 12 images, 6x7 have 10 images, etc...

You need enlarger lens which cover image size, that is for 6x4.5 you need 75mm enlarger lens, for 6x6 is 80mm, for 6x7 is 90mm, for 6x9 is 105mm, etc...
l
I work with 6x7 and my enlarger lens is 80mm. I think for 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x7, for all those three formats, 80mm enlager lens is OK. FOr other, you need other enlarger lens.

Most simple way to determine enlarger lens is next: Lens which focal lenght is considered normal for your film format, that is focal lenght of enlarger lens you need. If you dont have that lens, next closest focal lenhgt is useable, but you can be restricted on max print size or vignetting. For example if you use 6x6 film format with enlarger that can make max 30x40cm print size from that negative format - if you print with 50mm enlarger lens you will have vignetting, but if you print with 105mm enlarger lens, you will not be able to make print bigger than let say 13x18 cm.

If you have enlarger which can raise head very high, or you project image on wall or floor distant enough, then you can use longer than normal lens without problems.

There is also 220 film (now very rare) which gives 2x number of images on one roll compared to 120 film. Some camera backs can take both 120 and 220 films, but usually one need different back for same camera for 120 or 220 film.

 

[nworth]

You will need a lens with enough coverage for your negative size. For 120 film, that generally means 75 or 80 mm for 645 or 6X6 (2-1/4 square) or 105mm for 6X7 and 6X9. A shorter lens lets you make bigger enlargements, but a longer lens sometimes has greater sharpness at the edges. I use a 105 mm Apo-Rodagon for all my 120 work, and I have plenty of enlarging capacity even for 645. Some people use a 135mm lens for 6X7, 6X9, and 4X5. It works.

 

[dancqu]

A longer than normal lens makes smaller print exposures easy.
I use a 105mm with 6x 4.5, 6 and 7. The head can be lifted
higher making for easier focusing, easel arraingement, and
realistic exposure times. I'd use an 80mm only for greater
than 11x14 and/or overly dense negatives. Go long. Dan

 

[Larry Bullis]

This is very picky, perhaps, but think about the logic.

Ideally, I might choose the longest focal length possible to make a print of the size that I need to make. There are two reasons. Both have to do with the system's geometry.

One is cutoff. Have you ever stopped a lens down with the lamp on, and without a negative in the holder? Did you notice that when the lens is stopped down a few stops from wide open, the center dims first without the edges and corners following, and then, when it gets to a certain point, the whole field then dims evenly until the smallest aperture is reached? It looks pretty strange unless you figure out why. The reason for this is that the lens mount is a tube. If you were able to look from the center of the easel toward the lens set wide open, you would see the lens as a circle, but if you moved over to the corner and looked at it, part, or even most of that circle would be clipped off by the front and the back of the tube. The amount cut off is light lost. Stopping the lens down eventually makes the aperture small enough that it is not clipped but the entire aperture can be seen, as a circle (more properly, an ellipse, since a circle seen from an angle doesn't appear as a circle) OK most apertures these days aren't really circles but the same applies. Using the longer lens, you would not need to stop down as far in order to eliminate this cutoff.

The other is the "cosine". If you were to suspend a plumbob from the center of the lens directly vertical to the easel, and then swing it, you would produce an arc. At the edges, and especially at the corners, the plumbob would lift up above the surface. That distance above the surface represents lost light. The longer the lens, the less that distance will be, proportionally. This cannot be avoided, but in using the longer lens, you can minimize it.

Of course, experienced printers burn the edges to compensate for these, especially the latter. The first can be more problematic, and I, at least, have learned that it is better to stop down until I don't have the problem at all, because I'm going to spend that exposure time anyway in burning the edges and corners, and I would rather start from a more even condition.

So, longer the lens, the more even the field.

 

[nov]

sorry i was just wondering, what would happen if you used a 50mm lens for 6x6 film?

 

[bdial]

At worst it would vignette, or show softness in the corners because the coverage of the lens might not be enough to get the whole negative.
Small prints might be difficult, as a 50mm lens has more magnification, the enlarger head would be very close to the baseboard.

On the other hand, if you're making a large print and cropping heavily from the center of the negative, it might be just the thing if your enlarger lacks height.

 

[dynachrome]

I sometimes used a 50/4 El Nikkor on my Bogen 22A Special enlarger with 6X6 negatives. If I made a print 8X10 or larger the lens seemed to have the covering power. I would usually use an 80/5.6 CE Rokkor-X or 80/5.6 EL Nikkor for 6X6. If I need to do a lot of cropping or to make large prints I will use a 60/4 Bogen Wide Angle lens.

 

[nov]

i see.. so i need a lens that is 23.5mm thread (looking at the meopta site) and I've seen a schnieder lens that is 22 or 29mm ... does anyone know which lens i could get that is a 23.5mm thread?

 

[Steve Smith]

I use an 80 mm. Schneider Componon S for negatives up to 6 x 7 cm. and it works perfectly out to the corners of the frame once it is set two stops down from wide open.

I have a Componon S 80mmm too.

I use it for 35mm, 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x7.

I do have a 105mm for 6x7 but I rarely use it.



Steve.