Enlarger: Is this a good price please?

dwdmguy · Apr 20, 2009

After some neg. I was offered the following:

Beseler 45MCR Cold Head
Both a 90mm and 80mm lens
Several (3) Neg carriers for 35mm, 6x6 and 4x5
2 eseals
For $225

Good?

Also, if you have time, could you please point me to some links so I may learn about the difference between a cold head and a compressor?

Thanks so much.
Tom

srs5694 · Apr 20, 2009

I'm not familiar with that specific model; however, a search on Google turns up two recently-ended Beseler 45 enlarger sales. One sold for $255 and the other reached a high bid of $112.50 but didn't sell because that was below the reserve price. Neither was the MCR model.

As to the difference between a cold head and a compressor, I've never heard the word "compressor" in reference to enlargers. I think you mean the difference between a cold head and a condenser. These two things aren't really mutually exclusive, although I believe that cold heads can be used without either a condenser or diffusion configuration (see below). A "cold head" is basically an enlarger head with a fluorescent light source. Such heads are generally used on large format enlargers; few medium format and smaller enlargers use cold light sources. This contrasts with other light sources, such as tungsten or halogen bulbs. My understanding is that cold heads are good for B&W work but not for color, even with the addition of color filters, but I'm not positive of that. I'm not an expert on cold heads, so I'll leave it to others to describe their pluses and minuses in more detail.

A condenser head uses condensers, which are similar to lenses, to spread the light evenly over the negative. This contrasts with a diffusion design, in which the light is bounced around a box to even it out before it hits the negative. Condenser enlargers have a reputation for producing slightly sharper and contrastier prints than diffusion enlargers, but at the cost of scratches and dust standing out more in the print. Some people get quite emotional about the benefits of one or the other. If you're just starting out, I wouldn't worry too much about it; both systems work, and it's hard to say which one you'd end up preferring if you could spend time with both. The large area of cold head light sources, which are often formed in bent tubes, will affect how a condenser or diffusion box is designed to work with them (vs. a tungsten or halogen bulb, which is closer to a point source of light).

Steve Smith · Apr 20, 2009

I wish I could find one that cheap in the UK.

Steve.

fschifano · Apr 20, 2009

Oh well, I guess I'll just add some fire to the condenser vs. diffusion debate just for grins. I have both types of enlarger in my darkroom. The machine with the diffuse light source sees far more use than the one with the condenser lamphouse. Every tiny scratch, flaw, and speck of dust shows up in spades with the condenser enlarger. The problem is far less severe with the diffuser lamphouse. As for the contrast differences, well that's hard to quantify. The two lamphouses use different types of lamps. The condenser lamphouse uses a standard enlarger type tungsten lamp with a color temperature of about 2900K. The diffusing lamphouse uses a halogen lamp with a color temperature of around 3400K, so there is considerably more output at the blue end of the spectrum. Naturally, the lamp with a higher color temperature will print with more contrast with a given VC filter and paper combination. Quantifiable differences to micro contrast get lost in the noise. My take on it is that a diffuse light source is far more user friendly than a condenser lamphouse.

ic-racer · Apr 20, 2009

I agree with fschifanon's observations.

dwdmguy · Apr 20, 2009

srs: This is wonderful. Thank you so much. It is people like all of you that allow guys and gals like me (age 48) or age 10 to enjoy and learn. It is also you guys that I believe are not only keeping film alive but helping it in it's resurgance.
fschifanon's: Thank you, makes perfect sence to me and then being validated by ic-racer don't hurt none .

I'm glad I'm getting the 45 over the all too common 23cII as I just know I'm going to end up adding a larger format to my forte' in the future. I'd rather not have both.

I was thinking of making a small offer the the 23cII too. Do you think it's worth having?

Thank you guys so much again, all of you.
Tom

fschifano · Apr 20, 2009

The smaller enlarger might come in hand for making small prints (5x7 or smaller) from 35 mm negatives. At least, that's how I use my Omega B600. Using a 50 mm lens on my Omega D series (4x5) enlarger does not allow me to get the head close enough to the baseboard to make relatively un-cropped small prints from 35 mm. negatives. If I switch the lens out to an 80 mm. optic, then it is no problem. But who wants to be bothered when it is just easier to use a small easel on the other enlarger?

Would I have bought the B600 just for that? No. The machine came from my next door neighbor who was moving. The machine, and a few other miscellaneous bits of darkroom gear, was destined for the scrap heap had I not rescued it.

dwdmguy · Apr 20, 2009

Hi Frank. Now isn't that something? So many people a getting basic enlargers for free these days and above Steve writes that he wishes he could get one at this price. Weird...... I know I'll never be making smaller prints. I don't do that now even with a dig@#l printer.

fschifano · Apr 20, 2009

Never say never. With the right subject, sometimes, a small B&W print is a thing of beauty. The tonality is much nicer. Think of a composition with only one or two strong elements as the subject, good lighting, and an uncluttered background.

dwdmguy · Apr 20, 2009

Point well taken fschifano

Anscojohn · Apr 20, 2009

dwdmguy said:
After some neg. I was offered the following:

Beseler 45MCR Cold Head
Both a 90mm and 80mm lens
Several (3) Neg carriers for 35mm, 6x6 and 4x5
2 eseals
For $225

Good?

Also, if you have time, could you please point me to some links so I may learn about the difference between a cold head and a compressor?

Thanks so much.
Tom

****
Best price is they pay you to take it off their hands. "No one" wants enlargers these days.

firecracker · Apr 20, 2009

dwdmguy said:
After some neg. I was offered the following:

Beseler 45MCR Cold Head
Both a 90mm and 80mm lens
Several (3) Neg carriers for 35mm, 6x6 and 4x5
2 eseals
For $225

Good?

As far as the price goes, it's probably in a good range in the U.S. But in Japan, even at online auctions, for that kind of package, it would be at least 5-10 times more!

Anscojohn · Apr 20, 2009

ic-racer said:
I agree with fschifanon's observations.

*****
So do I.

MattKing · Apr 20, 2009

dwdmguy said:
I know I'll never be making smaller prints. I don't do that now even with a dig@#l printer.

I guess then you wouldn't be interested in participating in the APUG postcard exchange .

You may be surprised at how much fun it can be to receive a small print.

Matt

Steve Smith · Apr 21, 2009

dwdmguy said:
Hi Frank. Now isn't that something? So many people a getting basic enlargers for free these days and above Steve writes that he wishes he could get one at this price.

It is weird. People seem to be giving them away in the US but asking good money for them in the UK.

I'm sure people are giving away 5x4 enlargers in the UK.... just not to me!

Steve.

Rick A · Apr 21, 2009

I think most of you have not answered the question--"is it a good deal" It is if YOU think it is. However, I would try offering half that amount first. If they accept, then you've gotten an outstand bargain! Also the 45 will handle all neg sizes up to, and including 4x5. If you can grab the 23 in the as a package (all for 1 price) then hurry up and get them installed!!!!!
Rick

Steve Smith · Apr 21, 2009

ralnphot said:
I would try offering half that amount first. If they accept, then you've gotten an outstand bargain!

That is my brother's approach to buying everything. When he goes to look at something he takes half the advertised price with him in cash.

He has more success than failure with this method.

I'm the complete opposite. I always end up paying full price for things. That's why I send him out to get stuff for me now!

Steve.

Rick A · Apr 21, 2009

I stash half the cash in one pocket, and the balance in another, then tell them "this is all I can afford" usually, they go for it---Especially if you put the CASH in their hand first --most times they dont(or wont)gige the money back, and say yes!!!!! Above all---never be afraid to dicker with people!!!!!
Rick

Prest_400 · Apr 21, 2009

Steve Smith said:
It is weird. People seem to be giving them away in the US but asking good money for them in the UK.

I'm sure people are giving away 5x4 enlargers in the UK.... just not to me!

Steve.

I do agree. If in UK it's expensive to have one, In Spain 4x5 enlargers must be also expensive, and good luck finding a second hand one; If someone offers me a nice 4x5 enlarger for $200 I would not think it. I've taken a fast look around the web, and 4x5 enlargers do not seem to be very common.
US is the photo equipment paradise, you can just find almost everything :rolleyes:
I took a fast look at B&H and if I needed a 4x5 enlarger new it would just cost me a bit more than $600. It's even more economic to start using 8x10" and contact printing.
Now, I don't imagine the market in 10 years... Around then I should have a need for a 4x5 enlarger. Maybe I'll just have to be using 4x5" for color and 8x10" for Monochrome.

Steve Smith · Apr 21, 2009

I have just had a look at ebay (UK) and all I could find was a DeVere 504, buy it now, £250 which is $365 at the current exchange rate.

Steve.

Anon Ymous · Apr 21, 2009

Steve Smith said:
I have just had a look at ebay (UK) and all I could find was a DeVere 504, buy it now, £250 which is $365 at the current exchange rate.

Steve.

A bargain considering the prices down here...

mwdake · Apr 21, 2009

I thought I got a good deal when I snagged a complete Omega 4x5 darkroom set up for $100 after the seller dropped the price several times then when at finally at $200 I offered $100 becuase the enlarger was binding on the column. It turned out is was just becuse the rollers were not located correctly.

Then a few weeks ago I saw a complete Omega Dichroic 4x5 set up on eBay starting at 99c. This was the most complete setup I have ever seen with half dozen lenses around 10 carriers a 16x20 Saunders easel, easily worth a couple of hundred on its own and tons of other stuff. The seller listed it as pick up only in Corpus Christi Texas.

Guess what, it sold for 99c.
Someone got bargain even if they did have to drive across the country to get it.

Enlarger: Is this a good price please?

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