enlarger comparison.....

[CMoore]

Assuming both had a Dichroic Head.....is the main difference the size of the Negative/Print that each can handle, or are there other important differences to consider also.?
Thank You

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/105697-REG/Beseler_8011_03_23CIII_XL_Dichro_Enlarger.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/3991-REG/Beseler_8227_45MXT_Enlarger_Chassis_Only.html

 

[ic-racer]

4x5 enlargers are bigger, heavier and frequently sturdier.

 

[Paul Howell]

Both are well made, well proven designs, the 23c is quite common on the used market, I have seen a nice 23c sell for under $100 on C list and shopgoodwill.com, if you find a store that will ship. Unless you are shooting or considering shooting 4X5 the 23C will do.

 

[John Koehrer]

The 4X5 link takes us to a chassis, no light source so that would kick the price up a bit($$$)

Other than negative size I'd say they were comparable in quality. Like the blurb on the link says 50 years of the same basic model. If you wouldn't find 6X9 negatives a limitation, I'd go 23C
Makes for pretty good history. Plenty of used carriers and boards out there too. A lot less $$$ than new and both use the same 4X4 lens boards.

The weakness in the smaller one is the plastic/nylon gears in the lift, but it takes a lot of years of constant use to wear them out. If you got to that point though, they're easy to replace.

Like PDH says they're relatively expensive to ship(30ish lbs & large). If you can find one within driving distance you're probably better off.

 

[fotch]

The 4x5 has a motorized lift, more heavy duty, more accessories. For most use, either will be fine if you don't need 4x5 negatives. I have both however, prefer the 4x5.

 

[Sirius Glass]

4"x5" enlargers are larger and sturdier. Dichroic heads will allow both color and black & white printing. The 4"x5" enlarger will allow you to also print 6x9 and other larger formats and we know from experience that if you continue to visit APUG you will get into 4"x5". It is only a question of when not if.

 

[MattKing]

If you are comparing the new listings in order to gain information, I would suggest wandering through the information on KHB's website. See all the sub-links under "New and Used Equipment": http://www.khbphotografix.com/

 

[CMoore]

Hey Matt -
Yes.....the links are just for comparison.
Thank You

 

[fotch]

4"x5" enlargers are larger and sturdier. Dichroic heads will allow both color and black & white printing. The 4"x5" enlarger will allow you to also print 6x9 and other larger formats and we know from experience that if you continue to visit APUG you will get into 4"x5". It is only a question of when not if.

Don't all the 23C enlarger print from 6x9 negatives? I have an older one and it does.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Nothing will depreciate faster than an enlarger unless it is a digital camera in water.

 

[CMoore]

Well, lots of things depreciate.
If I could find a good, used, 23C like the one in my link, I would happily buy it.

 

[BobMarvin]

If you're looking for a used Beseler 23C you might also want to look for the Omega equivalent, the B-8.

 

[Paul Howell]

At the price of a new 23C you may even consider driving to pick up one up. Shopgoodwill has a number listed including a color unit that needs a baseboard, but the store will not ship, so if can pick one up you can save a lot of money. Are you planning on printing color?

 

[CMoore]

As a rank beginner, I do not see myself printing color for a few years yet.
I thought the color heads made filtering a lot easier.?

 

[MattKing]

As a rank beginner, I do not see myself printing color for a few years yet.
I thought the color heads made filtering a lot easier.?

Colour heads can be great for variable contrast black and white printing.

Even if you don't use the filters to change the colour/contrast, the diffused light they supply is often preferable over the more contrasty light from condenser sources.

They were more expensive then condenser heads when they were new, and there is more in them that can go wrong.

Beseler (and others) make special heads that are designed specifically for variable contrast printing. They tend to be more rare and expensive on the used markets.

 

[Paul Howell]

The 23c has a filter drawer, if you learn split printing you primarily use 00 and 5, perhaps burn and dodge with others. On the whole I recommend learning to use standard filters or learn match your negatives to print on grade 2 paper. Others will disagree but I am not sure if the additional expense is worth what I see as little benefit. On Phoenix's Craig's list there are 4 or 5 23Cs, one looks a little rough but is usable for $50.00. Other are priced in fantasy land. As mentioned you can also think about a Omega B 8-if you are printing 6X9, if printing from 6X6 or 6X7 an Omega or Bessler model for smaller format. On other hand if you intend to print color then getting a color head from the start makes sense. I print color on occasion, I had a Durst 601 with a color head but gave it way, now I print with my Omega D3 and a set of Kodak and unicolor printing filers, a little more time consuming works just as well.

 

[Jeff Bradford]

I bought my 23Cii on ebay for $35. Keep checking. New stuff gets added every day.

 

[CMoore]

Thanks Again for all the info.
I fortunately have time to Consider/Absorb all your suggestions.
Thanx

 

[M Carter]

23C's are all over the place. Good enlargers, and lens boards and neg carriers are plentiful if you shop around.

For B&W a color head might be nice - I just matched the 00 and 5 filters to 52mm camera filters and use those under the lens for split printing. Much easier to keep a glass filter clean and they sit right in the beseler opaque red holder.

What you won't get with a 23c or 67 Beseler - pin registration and glass carriers if you ever get into masking, which is probably way more powerful for B&W printing than a color head. I did pin-register a 67c, but it's nothing like having a good 4x5.

 

[PPPPPP42]

I never plan to go larger than 645 film and that's if I even go larger than 35mm. For that reason the 23c was all I would ever need and I picked up a nice one (blue 23cII with the XL extension stuff) along with a complete darkroom setup off craigslist for $100.

Except for us film is dead, people are practically giving the stuff away (in some cases I have seen 23c's for free) off craigslist if you wait a bit. Ebay tends to be non local and an enlarger is a difficult thing to ship properly.

A basic 23c has very little value, an XL (or one with the longer board and booster bracket) or a color head or lots of add on accessories would be the only reason I would pay very much for one. Just for the heck of it I searched and I have a 23cII locally on craigslist for $35 in "excellent" condition.
It is a very good enlarger though with a ton of parts and accessories used and new out there because they made so damn many of them.

A good site on the 23c http://www.oresteen.com/bess23c.htm

EDIT: in looking further local on craigslist I found another 23cII with the XL add ons for $20 and a complete darkroom including a 23c for $125 all working equipment, seriously, a large amount of darkroom stuff is near worthless these days despite the laughable 300-500 ads you see.

 

[M Carter]

We have a great local camera store in the photo-studio-warehouse district - they stock the whole Ilford line and mountains of used gear. Kind of a wonderland.

They have two 23C's, and say they regularly put enlargers on the curb after stripping the carriers and lens boards. Sad.

On the other hand, they have several boxes packed full of negative carriers for 20 or so a pop...

 

[Sirius Glass]

As a rank beginner, I do not see myself printing color for a few years yet.
I thought the color heads made filtering a lot easier.?

Color heads give an infinite black & white contrast variability.