Enlarger advice

[Tim Gray]

I'm looking to put my bathroom darkroom back together now that I am in a different house. The darkroom will be in a full bathroom, but I should be able to keep it setup quasi permanently.

I currently have a Beseler 23CII condenser in good shape. I shoot 35mm, so I'm not looking for a 4x5 enlarger. I only do B&W and print split grade. I'm also in the US.

If I were to look for a new-to-me enlarger that is an 'upgrade' to the 23CII that is readily available in the US, what should I look for? I'd like to find something that is well supported by the used market, i.e. I can find spares, carriers, etc, easily and not have to hunt. As much as it sounds like De Vere and Kienzle are wonderful enlargers, they seem to difficult to source in the US.

Currently looking at:

• LPL 670xl/7700 - seems to be a lot of accessories readily available
• Kaiser VP9005 - appears to be a well thought out system, however harder to find in the US
• ...?

 

[MattKing]

You might consider upgrading just the light source. The Beseler variable contrast head looks very attractive to me.
What is it that you find inadequate about the 23CII?

 

[voceumana]

Why not stick with your current enlarger? Perhaps you are trying to get away from a condenser light source? The LPL 6x7 enlargers (both models) are a pleasure to use, though quite expensive new. The Beseler VCCE lamphouse for the 23CIII is $915 new from BH PhotoVideo--don't know if it directly fits on the 23CII, but if it does, then you could use all the negative carriers and lensboards/accessories you now have.

Personally, I have LPL equipment and like it.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

The 23C is a great machine. Spend your money on a dichro head for it. You don't have to buy new. I printed almost exclusively with a 23C and the "Dual Dichro" head for years till I stepped up to 4x5.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Tim Gray]

Nothing specifically wrong with the 23CII, though the available fine focus on the LPL is intriguing. The universal glass carrier with masking would also be nice to have.

Unfortunately the dichro heads for the 23CIII are not compatible with the 23CII; I think I looked into that a few years ago. I got the 23CII for not much and figured I’d keep an eye out for a good deal if it was worth acquiring a different enlarger...

 

[Patrick Robert James]

The Saunders is a better enlarger than the 23C. Not sure why people always defend that thing. Lots of bad design with that enlarger. In the end it doesn't really matter what you use, but some things are worth having that make the experience better. The 23c ain't one of them.

You can get a condenser head for the 670. I used to have one. I rarely ever used it though. Just get a 670 VCCE and you will be happy. Can't go wrong with it.

If you only ever do 35mm and aren't planning to do anything larger, then get a Leitz Focomat 1c or a V35. The 1c wont be hard to find. V35s are less common, but you can get one with a variable contrast head. Try to get a later one if you go that route to avoid bulb issues.

Hope that helps you.

 

[mshchem]

I would use what you have until opportunity knocks. When I wait something good eventually shows up. Craigslist or a local,pick up only. I've used Beseler 4x5 stuff for decades. None of the Beseler stuff is overly sophisticated. Still basically a 1950s design.

If I was going to upgrade I would look at trying to find a more modern design. The beauty of Beseler is there's one on every block, in every city, in every state.

 

[voceumana]

There are a couple of LPL 670's with VC head on ebay right now for a decent price. They are saying shipping is free.

New LPL negative carriers seem expensive, especially the universal glass with masking, but if you buy from KHB Photografix in Canada, the cost is lower though shipping is a bit more than domestic rates. Currently $170 C, about $135 US; it is $213 from BH PhotoVideo. USA has an extra distribution layer (Omega/Satter) whereas KHB imports directly--that's the reason for the price difference.

 

[markbau]

If your Bessler is in good shape why not use that with multigrade filters? Having said that, I'm not a fan of Bessler's and am a big fan of LPL enlargers. I have two 67 LPL's and love them, there are usually lots of spares available on eBay, you just have to be patient sometimes. Just make sure your Bessler is properly aligned, in my experience they can go out of alignment if the wind changes.

 

[logan2z]

Try to get a later one if you go that route to avoid bulb issues.
.

I have both a 23CII XL and a Leitz v35. The v35 is a very nicely engineered enlarger for 35mm, but finding replacement bulbs with the specs of the originals - even for the later models - is pretty much impossible. I've tried a variety of so-called replacement bulbs but none of them had the brightness of the originals and lead to long exposure times. The issue seems to be the beam angle of these replacements that results in a lot of light lost inside the light box. Beautiful enlarger, but the lack of correct bulb availability can make it a bit frustrating to use.

 

[Tim Gray]

Thanks for the input! The LPLs sound like nice enlargers. If I find a good deal on one, maybe I'll jump on it.

 

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

I have owned the 23CII and two different LPL models. Now, I love my LPL 4x5 enlarger, but if I only did 35mm I'd be perfectly happy with a 23C. Replace the bulb with a high-watt LED flood and add a layer of diffusion gel under the condenser for low heat and softer light if you like. The filter tray is easy to use as well. I'd suggest spending the money on an f-stop timer instead.

 

[Tim Gray]

Great advice that I took you up on several years ago. Already got a Stopclock Pro.

 

[removed account4]

i've been using a durst m601 for close to 40 years. its small in comparison to a bessler you are using, has condensors and the capability of printing 110
upto 6x6cm if you ever downscale or upscale your negatives. the head swivels so if you want to print something larger you can on the wall, and the column can be put on reverse to the baseboard so you can print over the edge of your table. looking on ebay they aren't yard sale prices but still pretty affordable.
have fun in your new printing space!

 

[Tim Gray]

If you only ever do 35mm and aren't planning to do anything larger, then get a Leitz Focomat 1c or a V35. The 1c wont be hard to find. V35s are less common, but you can get one with a variable contrast head. Try to get a later one if you go that route to avoid bulb issues.

You've sent me down the rabbit hole of looking at 1c's now.

 

[Arklatexian]

I'm looking to put my bathroom darkroom back together now that I am in a different house. The darkroom will be in a full bathroom, but I should be able to keep it setup quasi permanently.

I currently have a Beseler 23CII condenser in good shape. I shoot 35mm, so I'm not looking for a 4x5 enlarger. I only do B&W and print split grade. I'm also in the US.

If I were to look for a new-to-me enlarger that is an 'upgrade' to the 23CII that is readily available in the US, what should I look for? I'd like to find something that is well supported by the used market, i.e. I can find spares, carriers, etc, easily and not have to hunt. As much as it sounds like De Vere and Kienzle are wonderful enlargers, they seem to difficult to source in the US.

Currently looking at:

• LPL 670xl/7700 - seems to be a lot of accessories readily available
• Kaiser VP9005 - appears to be a well thought out system, however harder to find in the US
• ..
  

  You've sent me down the rabbit hole of looking at 1c's now.

  Of course, you could keep the Beseler and try to find a Leitz Valoy 2 for your 35mm, It was "made for" 35mm and has a great reputation. Later, when you go to Medium Format (as you probably will), you will still have the 23C11.........Regards!

 

[Patrick Robert James]

You've sent me down the rabbit hole of looking at 1c's now.

You will thank me later. Lol.

See if you can find one locally. Try to get one with the anti-newton glass attachment too. You can put practically any 50mm on it so sell the Focotar that will probably be on it because it just isn't that good of a lens. The Focotar 2 or the LFE Focotars are worth keeping though. The most desirable ones were grey but they are all good. If you can get one with the lockable easel it is nice, although a little bit fiddly, to have. Having autofocus on an enlarger sure is nice....

 

[etn]

What kind of lens do you have? if you have a "cheap" lens, upgrading that element only can already bring an improvement. You will be able to re-use that lens with more or less any new enlarger you might buy in the future too, so it's a no risk purchase.

 

[logan2z]

You will thank me later. Lol.

See if you can find one locally. Try to get one with the anti-newton glass attachment too. You can put practically any 50mm on it so sell the Focotar that will probably be on it because it just isn't that good of a lens. The Focotar 2 or the LFE Focotars are worth keeping though. The most desirable ones were grey but they are all good. If you can get one with the lockable easel it is nice, although a little bit fiddly, to have. Having autofocus on an enlarger sure is nice....

Not to derail this thread, but I have an opportunity to buy a 1c locally and am seriously considering it. It has the anti-newton glass carrier and the locking easel. It's the version with the under-the-lens filters and the filter holder is included. I currently have a Beseler 23CII XL and a Focomat v35 and would like to give the 1c a try, but the under-the-lens filters give me pause - something seems wrong about using a high quality lens and then projecting the image through a cheap piece of (potentially dirty) plastic. The same reason I don't use a UV filter on my cameras but use a lens cap for protection instead. Maybe I'm being silly.

 

[etn]

but the under-the-lens filters give me pause - something seems wrong about using a high quality lens and then projecting the image through a cheap piece of (potentially dirty) plastic. The same reason I don't use a UV filter on my cameras but use a lens cap for protection instead. Maybe I'm being silly.

I am not too worried about UV filters - after all they are flat, easy to clean (easier than the front lens), and of optical glass. Modern ones are multi-coated. They should be relatively glare free, particularly if a sunshade is used. Obviously, to each his own, nothing wrong with not using any if you prefer it that way.

However I too would be VERY worried about under the lens filtering on an enlarger. Is it really done that way? does it require special filters? (e.g. out of optical glass, low distortion or whatever) I could not imagine projecting through the plastic Ilford filters I use on my enlarger. They are placed before the condenser in the light path, there’s a reason for that!

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Not to derail this thread, but I have an opportunity to buy a 1c locally and am seriously considering it. It has the anti-newton glass carrier and the locking easel. It's the version with the under-the-lens filters and the filter holder is included. I currently have a Beseler 23CII XL and a Focomat v35 and would like to give the 1c a try, but the under-the-lens filters give me pause - something seems wrong about using a high quality lens and then projecting the image through a cheap piece of (potentially dirty) plastic. The same reason I don't use a UV filter on my cameras but use a lens cap for protection instead. Maybe I'm being silly.

This has been beat to death over the years. There is no issue with using filters below the lens as long as they are clean. On my 1c I use blue47/green58 since I split print everything. No issues.

If you want to go nuts, you can take the top off the enlarger and put the filter above the condenser. I've read that people do that as well. Or if you really want to go nuts you can buy a Heiland split grade head for it. $$$$

 

[John Koehrer]

Using a different lens on any of the Leitz AF machines MAY need an adjustment to the AF cam.
No big deal really but it's something to be aware of.