Enlarger advice needed!

[xAxPhotography]

Hello guys and girls of APUG, yes I'm new here

I'm trying to make a laboratory come together and the only unsolved mystery for me now are the enlargers,
I have read the http://www.jollinger.com/photo/enlargers/guide-to-enlargers.htm article, which is a very nice read.

So I'm after 2x enlargers - 35mm and 6x7 or 6x9

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Paul Howell]

1. Where do you live? , I assume somewhere other than North America, don't often seen the term laboratory in N.A for a darkroom.

2. New or used?

3. Budget?

4. What size prints?

5. Color and Black and White?

6. Space, how tall is the ceiling, how long and wide is the space, do you need to shoot to the floor or a wall for big prints?

7. 6X7 or 6X9, are you shooting 6X7 and not 6X9?

 

[xAxPhotography]

Yeah, I suppose, I missed a few things in OP.

1. Latvia

2. Used

3. 300-400eur per piece

4. up to A3

5. must do everything, so I suppose best bet are dichroic heads

6. +/- 1m x 1m, that's about 3ft x 3ft

7. I'm personaly shooting 6x7, but somebody might come in one day with a 6x9 neg. so I want to be prepared for pretty much everything

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

What if someone comes in with 6x12cm or 4x5 inch?

 

[Paul Howell]

Yeah, I suppose, I missed a few things in OP.

1. Latvia

Need to find the makes available in your neck of the woods, or area, enlargers can be heavy so you might pay more for shipping than the enlargers. I have used Durst, seem to be common in the EU. Others will be more helpful as they will have a better understanding of the makes and models.

2. Used

3. 300-400eur per piece

4. up to A3 A3 is how big, for us Americans in inches?

5. must do everything, so I suppose best bet are dichroic heads

6. +/- 1m x 1m, that's about 3ft x 3ft

7. I'm personaly shooting 6x7, but somebody might come in one day with a 6x9 neg. so I want to be prepared for pretty much everything

With such a small space you might need to go with a smaller 6X7, seems odd that a 6X9 can be a bit larger. If you can only fit in one enlarger I would think about a 4X5.

 

[xAxPhotography]

was thinking about that, 6x12 is highly unlikely, but large format is written somewhere in the project as the next step

edit:

i can fit 3 with ease if i stay within 1x1m dimensions

 

[Paul Howell]

What if someone comes in with 6x12cm or 4x5 inch?

Oh is this is a business, in that case you need a 4X5.

 

[xAxPhotography]

question - how hard is it to re-configure an enlarger to a different format?
like 6x9 to 35mm?

AFAIK I need the lens and the film carrier

 

[rbultman]

question - how hard is it to re-configure an enlarger to a different format?
like 6x9 to 35mm?

AFAIK I need the lens and the film carrier

Is the 1mx1m the space for a single enlarger or for all of your enlargers?

It depends on the enlarger, but different lens, lens cone, and negative carrier, assuming dichroic head. You may also need a different mixing box, but that depends on the enlarger. A can't speak about changes need to use a condenser enlarger for different film formats.

The Beseler 23C series can do 35mm through 6x9. Some enlargers like the Omega D series can span from 35mm to 4x5, but these are larger. The LPL 7700 is more compact and will do 35mm through 6x7. Some print 6x9 negatives with it, but you can't print the whole negative.

You could trying getting a single enlarger that handles all of your formats. It may be cheaper if you can find a complete enlarger with negative carriers and lens cones as finding lens cones and negative carriers, especially for less popular enlarger, can be painful and (relatively) expensive. Lenses are cheap and plentiful and can be bought after you get the enlarger.

Changing over enlargers to support a different format can be easy as swapping lenses and negative carriers and can take seconds, provided your lenses are pre-mounted in their own lens cones. Some enlargers have a lens turret where changing lenses is as easy as rotating the turret.

Regards,
Rob

 

[RobC]

I doubt you will ever find an enlarger that can 4x5 negatives which has a column less than 1 meter tall. Infact I think you will struggle to find any enlarger that will fit in that space.

enlargers usually come on a baseboard with feet which adds 5cm to height. Then when the head is fully up it sticks up above the top of the column by as much as 3cm to 40cm.

My Durst L1200 which is 4x5 enlarger has a column which is 140cm tall plus the above so in total 180cm or so.

See following pdf document which show specs for last durst enlargers made which should give you some clues.

http://darkroom.ru/info/manuals/durst_catalog_eng.pdf

As you will see, only the smaller and very basic units would fit into 1m but certainly not a 6x9 or 4x5 enlarger. You better do some very careful measurements before you start buying anything. You may have to cut big holes in the ceiling or lower your workbench height but that can make working with enlarger very awkward.

There may be other makes which fit but I doubt it. I think you need a bigger darkroom with higher ceilings.

And you may need to buy wide angle enlarging lenses if you have limited enlarger height.

 

[xAxPhotography]

Is the 1mx1m the space for a single enlarger or for all of your enlargers?

that's the space for a single enlarger

the table is +/- 3x1m

ceiling is +/- 3m tall, so I'm not worried about their height

the thing is - I know for sure, that I will be doing 35mm and medium format, as those are the most popular formats around here

so 4x5 isn't the primary thing I'm aiming for

 

[RobC]

The point is that many enlargers will do 6x7 and NOT many will do 6x9. For durst you would need at least the M805 (or older equivalent) for 6x9. But for 6x7 the M607 or Modular 70 or even M370 but be warned that max image size on baseboard is quoted without an easel which will make it significantly smaller so modular 70 (or older equivalent) and above is really the one to go for.

Also note that a 4x5 enalrger such as the L1200 is very heavy and requires a very strong bench/table to put it on otherwise the table/bench will begin to bend/sag under its weight after a short time if not immediately.

If you are thinking of new then have a look at:

http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkte/2_1_sortiment.asp?w=1342

This also tells you about sizes/heights etc and importantly distance from lens axis to to column for this make. An easel may take up to 7.5cm of that distance depending on the easel. i.e. it makes the possible image size smaller.

 

[Luis-F-S]

question - how hard is it to re-configure an enlarger to a different format?
like 6x9 to 35mm?

AFAIK I need the lens and the film carrier

You change carriers. You really need learn a whole lot more before you buy an enlarger.

 

[RobC]

You change carriers. You really need learn a whole lot more before you buy an enlarger.

+1

But there are enlargers such as the Durst Modular 70 which requires only moving a sliding lever to switch mixing box from 35mm to 6x7 and then just change film mask and lens.

Others require swapping mixing boxes manually by hand. i.e. take one out and put other in. On some you can get away with only using larger mixing box for both 6x7 and 35mm but light may be dim for 35mm if you do that.

Fact is that most enlargers are quite modular with different options for heads and mixing boxes etc so you really need to understand the particular make/system you are buying into and which different parts/pieces you require.

You should know all this before making a decision to build a darkroom becasue there's an awful lot more too regarding how multiple people are going to do their developing etc without all interfering with one another. Especially switching on lights or pulling out the negative holder with enalrger lamp switched on and fogging everyone elses print they've just spent 20 minutes burning and dodging.

 

[fotch]

You change carriers. You really need learn a whole lot more before you buy an enlarger.

And maybe change the lens. Better to have one really good enlarger rather than several mediocre ones. Go go the 6x9. Beseler 23C is solid.

 

[RobC]

And maybe change the lens. Better to have one really good enlarger rather than several mediocre ones. Go go the 6x9. Beseler 23C is solid.

Are they common in Latvia with parts being readily available?

 

[xAxPhotography]

thank you RobC for pointing towards the Kaiser, as they are available new localy!

further question - lenses?

I do understand that hi-end lenses are worth the investment, what should I look for in them?

 

[Paul Howell]

thank you RobC for pointing towards the Kaiser, as they are available new localy!

further question - lenses?

I do understand that hi-end lenses are worth the investment, what should I look for in them?

For Pro level color work I recommend APO lens. If you cant afford APO then look for 6 element lens, you need a 50 2.8 for 35mm, for 6X4.5 a 60mm to 75mm F4, 6X6 75 to 80 F4 for 6X9 either a 90 or 105, my 90 covers a 6X9 but a 105 is a better bet. If you decide on a 4X5 then a 150mm. I think a 50, 75, and 105 will cover 35 to 6X9.

 

[xAxPhotography]

will 105mm work for 6x7?

I can see how most people will come in with 6x4.5 to 6x7.

I really have no clue on how enlarger lenses work and how the diafragm actualy changes things.

So I'm sorry for the really obvious questions, but everybody has to start somewhere I suppose

 

[RobC]

will 105mm work for 6x7?

I can see how most people will come in with 6x4.5 to 6x7.

I really have no clue on how enlarger lenses work and how the diafragm actualy changes things.

So I'm sorry for the really obvious questions, but everybody has to start somewhere I suppose

Yes it will but you won't be able to enlarge as much and it will tend to be further/higher up the column than an 80mm lens would be to get the same size print.

Most enlarging lenses perform their best 1 or 2 stops closed own from their widest aperture f5.6 is usually optimum for an f2.8 lens and maybe an F4 lens too (sometimes).

If enlarger is perfectly aligned then closing down further won't make image sharper (depth of field at film only needs to be film gelatin thickness). But if its slightly out of alignment (lens not quite perpendicular to film plane) closing down further may bring it into focus.

Depth of focus at baseboard may be a few mm to a cm or more so is not as critical as lens to film alignment but best to get paper/easel as parallel to film plane as possible.

APO is best but non APO 6 or 7 element lens is plenty good enough for most people except for the most demanding of prnters.

50mm lens is usually optimised for around 8X to 10X enlargement factor. An 80mm maybe optimised for 6X to 8X enlargement factor. They go larger than that but performance tails off which is where an APO lens really wins.

Rodentock/Linos Rodagon or APO Rodagon
Schneider Componon-S or APO Componon HM

Those are the standards which everything else is compared to. There are others too.

Current modern lenses are the best but there are some older ones which can be extremely good too.

See Ctein's post exposure pages 87+

http://ctein.com/PostExposure2ndIllustrated.pdf

 

[Paul Howell]

If you can afford a 90 and 105 I would get both, if just one then a 105. As RobC mentioned all lens have optimum performance one or two stops down from widest aperture, usually 5.6 to 8. I have an old American enlarge lens, a Wollensake 50mm F4, a 5 element design is as good as my 6 element Schneider at F8, but the Schnedier at 2.8 is so much brighter that is it much easier to focus. An APO design is optimized for color, and it is suppose to be as sharp at 2.8 as it is at F8.

For a professional darkroom knowing how to keep the enlargers in alignment is critical, keep the darkroom clean, making sure the enlarger condensers and lens are clean, no not smoke, bring in hot drinks like coffee or tea, get a good quality air filter, dust in the darkroom makes for costly reprints and spotting. Only use fresh chemistry, make sure your safelights are safe. Don't take chances with safety. If you buy used equipment make sure the wiring and plugs meet code.

 

[Sirius Glass]

1. Where do you live? , I assume somewhere other than North America, don't often seen the term laboratory in N.A for a darkroom.

2. New or used?

3. Budget?

4. What size prints?

5. Color and Black and White?

6. Space, how tall is the ceiling, how long and wide is the space, do you need to shoot to the floor or a wall for big prints?

7. 6X7 or 6X9, are you shooting 6X7 and not 6X9?

One should get 4"x5" for future growth. The same lenses will still work for the smaller format. Find the best enlarger that you can afford and dive in. Best wishes.

 

[ozphoto]

I've tweaked my 6x7 LPL/Saunders to do 6x9, simply by removing the blades from the Universal Carrier. Fits the negative perfectly and no problems with printing at all.

That being said, if I could land a 5x4 for a good price, I'd purchase that over the 6x7. Just gives that bit extra for expansion - of course neg carriers might be scarcer to come by for the smaller sizes with the 5x4 enlarger (and possibly more expensive) so you'll need to take that into consideration.

If you could pick up both in your budget, I'd snap it up in a second - having the two gives extra options for printing multiple sizes at one time. Ideally this is what I'm aiming for myself, just need to land a nice 5x4 at a good price; I don't spend as much time in the darkroom as I once did - it's on one continent and I'm on another. It gets a huge workout though when I get back - I love shutting myself away and creating "art in the dark".