Empty negatives

Raffay · Feb 16, 2014

Hello All,

I recently bought my first 35mm camera and I am loving it. It is a Pentax ME Super, I have shot two black and white rolls using it but for some strange reason after every three four exposed negatives there is an empty one, and in a few shots only half of the negative is exposed cutting the composition into half as well. I am no expert but I think this has something to do with the shutter, I believe where the shots are blank it did not open on firing and on the half exposed negs it got stuck in the middle and returned - my wild guess.

Would appreciate if you could guide me as to what might be wrong and is there anything I could do to fix. I don't want to loose out on those negatives, a lot of time you think you nailed the shot and when you develop there is nothing more frustrating then seeing an empty one. Also, I am getting all my film from the USA hence would like to utilise the stock better.

Cheers
Raffay.

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Gerald C Koch · Feb 16, 2014

The camera is experiencing shutter problems. I needs a CLA (cleaning, lubrication, and adjustment.

MattKing · Feb 16, 2014

Are any of the blank shots ones where you used flash?

Raffay · Feb 16, 2014

Nope, don't have flash.

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MattKing · Feb 16, 2014

Raffay said:
Nope, don't have flash.

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Then most likely, your camera needs service.

dorff · Feb 17, 2014

What can happen sometimes, is that the shutter blades get oil or muck on them making them stick to one another, and then the trailing curtain does not separate from the leading curtain, so that for fast speeds (1/250 and above) you will get partial or total blackout. Sometimes the problem is more mechanical of nature, which usually means shutter replacement, or in your case buy another camera. A camera technician will be able to give you a prognosis.

It would be good to have a good look at the condition of the seals while you're at it, because disintegrating seals can cause bits of rubber to land in the shutter mechanism, apart from sticking to film and causing other sorts of problems.

250swb · Feb 17, 2014

I think the very first thing to do, even before sending it off for a CLA, is to sit down and repeatedly fire the camera with the back open and no lens on and see if you can see the shutter sticking and at which speeds. It isn't impossible for a camera to fix itself with vigorous exercise. A long shot maybe, but better than a CLA that may cost more than just buying another body.

Steve

Pioneer · Feb 17, 2014

250swb said:
I think the very first thing to do, even before sending it off for a CLA, is to sit down and repeatedly fire the camera with the back open and no lens on and see if you can see the shutter sticking and at which speeds. It isn't impossible for a camera to fix itself with vigorous exercise. A long shot maybe, but better than a CLA that may cost more than just buying another body.

Steve

The fly in the ointment with this method is that it seems to work only for a short period, if it actually works at all. I had a camera that I could get to work if I sat around for a little bit firing the shutter, but then it would start sticking within just a couple of hours. If the shutter is actually sticking then the best thing to do is to send it off for a cleaning, or do it yourself.

Raffay · Feb 17, 2014

Right now I have a portra roll in it, once that is shot I will test. Can this cleaning be done at home?

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pen s · Feb 17, 2014

I would also wonder if there is 1 or 2 random film chips floating around in the shutter mechanics and jamming the gears up occasionally.

A caution, the blades on these vertical run metal shutters are very thin and can be damaged without much force. Proceed carefully.

Peltigera · Feb 17, 2014

As Dorff says, it is most likely the shutter damping foam going gooey. The problem with cleaning it is two fold. First, the recess the foam is in is very small and hard to get at without taking the camera apart. Second, once the gooey ex-foam gets on the shutter blades it will get between the metal slats and be impossible to remove without damaging the slats.

I have had some success with a cotton bud and naphtha but I do not fool myself that I have a long-lasting fix. I don't know what the price of an ME Super is in Pakistan but with British prices a professional repair is just not viable.

Raffay · Feb 17, 2014

This is a little sad, as I just got this camera and it had this problem from the very first roll I shot with it. Well that's the chance I suppose we take when we buy such an old camera, but I thought if I get it from abroad chances of success would be more. Well I suppose, I will get it checked and let's see where it goes from there.

Thank you everyone for all your supportive and informative comments.

Cheers
Raffay.

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Sirius Glass · Feb 17, 2014

Sadly I have had the same problem with a few of the used cameras that I bought. The camera was left sitting too long without the shutter being activated. The oils congeal and the shutters will not fire.

I have used http://www.flutotscamerarepair.com/ several times. There is usually a waiting list, but the wait is worth it and Carol's prices are lower.

Peltigera · Feb 17, 2014

A Pentax ME Super is now at least 30 years old - well beyond its designed life. Our first thought should, perhaps, be amazement that they still work at all.

Gerald C Koch · Feb 17, 2014

The Pentax has a focal plane shutter so no blades to clean. The shutter curtain is sticking. It needs professional attention.

Raffay · Feb 17, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
The Pentax has a focal plane shutter so no blades to clean. The shutter curtain is sticking. It needs professional attention.

Does that mean it can be fixed, if the right technicians are around.

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250swb · Feb 17, 2014

Anything can be fixed, but on Ebay in the UK ME Super's sell from £15 to £30 with a lens. If you can find a repairer able to work for less let me have their name.

Steve

Peltigera · Feb 17, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
The Pentax has a focal plane shutter so no blades to clean. The shutter curtain is sticking. It needs professional attention.

The ME Super has a vertical travel metal focal plane shutter consisting of five metal blades, the lowest one of which gets mired in gooey ex-foam when the foam deteriorates. I have my ME Super before me and I have just counted the blades so they are definitely there!

Gerald C Koch · Feb 17, 2014

Peltigera said:
The ME Super has a vertical travel metal focal plane shutter consisting of five metal blades, the lowest one of which gets mired in gooey ex-foam when the foam deteriorates. I have my ME Super before me and I have just counted the blades so they are definitely there!

I read blades and for some reason thought leaves. However the problem is usually dirt in the shutter guides not oil as found in leaf shutters.

elekm · Feb 17, 2014

The ME is largely an electronically controlled camera. I suspect some issue with the electronics.

If the mirror flips up but the shutter doesn't trip, it probably is electronics - or it could be mechanical.

If the shutter trips but the mirror never moves, it probably is mechanical - or it could be electronic.

I don't think the ME model is that robust.

Either way, a trip to the repair center would let you know if the camera can be repaired.

Bill Burk · Feb 18, 2014

Hi Raffay,

Not really easy to clean a camera yourself. If you are fortunate you may find that the issue only affects the highest speeds.

Avoid using the high speeds for now, avoid 500 and 1000. Then when you finish the roll, check as 250swb suggests.

You would be able to see the half-blank situation as you watch through the back at a bright light.

I have a number of cameras which work well, except that I know I cannot use certain shutter speeds. If the camera is too unreliable for your taste, you can try to find another in better shape, or send the one you have for a cleaning.

Raffay · Feb 18, 2014

A little off topic but which 35mm would you guys recommend.

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Raffay · Feb 18, 2014

Bill Burk said:
Hi Raffay,

Not really easy to clean a camera yourself. If you are fortunate you may find that the issue only affects the highest speeds.

Avoid using the high speeds for now, avoid 500 and 1000. Then when you finish the roll, check as 250swb suggests.

You would be able to see the half-blank situation as you watch through the back at a bright light.

I have a number of cameras which work well, except that I know I cannot use certain shutter speeds. If the camera is too unreliable for your taste, you can try to find another in better shape, or send the one you have for a cleaning.

Thanks Bill, I have only shot 6 pics from the current roll. I will try and shoot at slow shutter speed the remaining and see. Btw, what cameras do you have?

Cheers
Raffay.

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mr rusty · Feb 18, 2014

A little off topic but which 35mm would you guys recommend.

Unless you already have a set of lenses, which narrows choice, almost anything is good. Olympus OMs are still relatively cheap, reliable and common, although glass is creeping up. Nikons a bit more than olympuses, pentax about the same as olympuses and probably minoltas a little less. IMO an underated camera is the Minolta X300/370 (also branded Centon DF300). These are common, go for ultra cheap and apart from occasionally dying due to a failed capacitor (which is an easy fix if you find the part), are reliable workhorses with both full manual and aperture priority auto. Minolta glass is decent, particularly the Rokkor stuff, but even a bog standard MD f1.7 50mm is a cracking lens.

All depends what you want. The ME super is not an expensive camera. A repair is probably uneconomic. personally I would try again with another camera. perhaps another pentax as you alreday have a lens.

Bill Burk · Feb 21, 2014

Raffay said:
Thanks Bill, I have only shot 6 pics from the current roll. I will try and shoot at slow shutter speed the remaining and see. Btw, what cameras do you have?

Cheers
Raffay.

Good luck with the rest of the roll. I have a variety of cameras, I wanted to explore what worked best for me. What I found is that I prefer simple mechanical shutter cameras, rangefinder or SLR, I don't use the camera meter, with a few lenses in the equivalent range of 35mm - 90mm maybe one of them being a macro lens. For ease of focus, I prefer f/2 or brighter SLR lenses. Obviously a rangefinder max aperture is not important since you don't focus through it. And I feel like the set is complete when I've got red, green and yellow filters for the lenses (though green is the last priority since I use it least).

Empty negatives

Raffay

Gerald C Koch

MattKing

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Raffay

MattKing

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dorff

250swb

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Raffay

pen s

Peltigera

Raffay

Sirius Glass

Peltigera

Gerald C Koch

Raffay

250swb

Peltigera

Gerald C Koch

elekm

Bill Burk

Raffay

Raffay

mr rusty

Bill Burk

Empty negatives

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