Emergency Help Required regarding Sodium Carbonate

[Bob Carnie]

Ok I feel like a complete dolt... I have subjects coming in tomorrow to have portraits done using my Sabbatair/Solarization technique.

I am mixing the chemicals right now... as follows

metol 144grams
sodium sulphite 440grams
sodium carbonite 420 grams
sodium bromide 56 grams

hot water to make 12 litres....... HORRORS ON HORRORS ... I only have 200 g of sodium carbonate.

Ok so its a form of baking soda... somewhat... is there a product at our local food store that I could use ... ie baking soda 200 grams or am I screwed.

If I cannot replace the missing 200grams what dire effect could I have by being short of this component.

I really am in a spot as our Chemical Dealer is closed, I AM A MORON FOR NOT CHECKING MY CHEMS. any help.

 

[Steve Smith]

Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, washing soda is sodium carbonate.


Steve.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Ok so can I buy washing soda at a local grocery store and be considered safe to add to my developer

QUOTE=Steve Smith;1324092]Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, washing soda is sodium carbonate.


Steve.[/QUOTE]

 

[CGW]

Arm & Hammer makes a washing soda that should be available at Walmart, Loblaws or other super-markets around the GTA. NO clue whether it will blow you and the lab up *^)

 

[Photo Engineer]

Bob;

Is your Sodium Carbonate the anhydrous or the monohydrate? The Arm and Hammer is probably the monohydrate. If yours and theirs are the same, then you can use the washing soda, but if one is the anhydrous and the other is the monohydrate, then you must compensate for the difference.

PE

 

[Bob Carnie]

Hi Ron

Sodium Carbonate
Dense (soda ash)
Na2 CO3 Molecular Weight 105.99

powder

thats on the label

thanks
Bob


I really appreciate all the fast responses

Bob;

Is your Sodium Carbonate the anhydrous or the monohydrate? The Arm and Hammer is probably the monohydrate. If yours and theirs are the same, then you can use the washing soda, but if one is the anhydrous and the other is the monohydrate, then you must compensate for the difference.

PE

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

Good luck Bob !
You are not a moron. Shit happens sometime...

 

[Gerald C Koch]

You can convert baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) into very pure sodium carbonate by heating it in the oven. Baking soda is USP grade and so contains fewer impurities than washing soda. Place the baking soda in a glass or SS pan and heat it at 350 F for about an hour. Stir it a couple of times during the process. The fine crystals of baking soda will change to a fine fluffy powder of anhyrous sodium carbonate.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ok Bob, then the Arm and Hammer is likely Na2CO3.H2O or 105.66 + 16 = 121.66 therefore the total using all Arm and Hammer would be 121.66 /105.66 or 1.15 x more Arm and Hammer to equal your pure anhydrous stuff.

That is, provided that the Arm and Hammer is a monohydrate. If the box does not tell you, check their web site or the MSDS for it.

PE

 

[Bob Carnie]

You all are the best ,,, less than one hour and my ass is saved... thank you

 

[Ian C]

He's not known as "The Wizard of Rochester" without good reason.

 

[Ed Bray]

Pity you were not closer, I have 20kg bags of Sodium Carbonate (anhydrous) here.

 

[Architeuthis]

Good luck man!

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

from NIH:

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=3005022

link above says Arm & Hammer sodium carbonate is 85% sodium carbonate, 15% water....which according to a post from Gainer in this thread (there was a url link here which no longer exists) means it is monohydrate

 

[Worker 11811]

Coffee maker cleaner is often made from sodium carbonate. Usually pure.
You can buy it at WalMart or the grocery store. Just read the label first.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

If anyone is interested, there's a least a couple threads on APUG (and maybe one on photo.net) where the difference between photographic grade sodium carbonate and soda ash sodium carbonate are thrashed about...

Edit - I see the thread linked above contains links to the threads I mentioned in it.

 

[Worker 11811]

Just read the link at NIH.GOV. Looked up sodium carbonate.

HtH Ph Plus, the chemical for swimming pools, is 99.8 to 100 percent sodium carbonate.
It's available at WalMart in the home and garden section where you buy swimming pool chemicals.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-pH-Plus/17043635

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

I got my sodium carbonate at Walmart as arm&hammer washing soda...my local grocery stores don't seem to sell it anymore...wonder which is cheaper...the washing soda or the pH plus

 

[Worker 11811]

Per the link above, WalMart price = $8.47 for 5 lb.

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

You can convert baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) into very pure sodium carbonate by heating it in the oven. Baking soda is USP grade and so contains fewer impurities than washing soda. Place the baking soda in a glass or SS pan and heat it at 350 F for about an hour. Stir it a couple of times during the process. The fine crystals of baking soda will change to a fine fluffy powder of anhyrous sodium carbonate.

so if this is more pure than the "washing soda" I've been using & bicarbonate is much more available....and heating for an hour in the oven is so easy...seems like a good alternative

will the anhydrous absorb water from the air and turn into the monohydrate?

 

[dpurdy]

I have used the Arm and Hammer super washing soda in my paper developers with no problem that I noticed. You can also use dye fixative from an art store.
Dennis

 

[Bob Carnie]

Arm and Hammer worked and I am the proud Dad of some nice negatives..

thank you all and I will post an image to show the results.

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

went to Walmart to look at the pool chemicals...

saw sodium carbonate.....they also had several other chemicals...so be sure to read the label!!

 

[Worker 11811]

I went to the NIH and found the name of the product and it was listed as containing 99.8% to 100% sodium carbonate.
I looked up the product's MSDS and it says the only ingredient is sodium carbonate. In fact it is listed as CAS no. 000497-19-8, which is anhydrous sodium carbonate.

NIH website page: http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=1031009
Product MSDS: http://whatsinproducts.com/msds.php?brandId=11203

Either somebody's playing fast and loose with the labeling or some website has the wrong information.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

so if this is more pure than the "washing soda" I've been using & bicarbonate is much more available....and heating for an hour in the oven is so easy...seems like a good alternative

will the anhydrous absorb water from the air and turn into the monohydrate?

Yes it will absorb water from the air so store it in a tightly sealed jar. I have found that canning (mason) jars work very well for storing chemicals. They are readily available, cheap and have a nice wide mouth.