Eliminating cast - tungsten light

Matt5791 · Jan 25, 2009

I've just been printing an interior shot, which was predominantly lit with tungsten light (on daylight film - Portra 400NC)

I've increased yellow and this had helped the print, in certain areas such as the white ceiling and other light coloured areas. Infact the print now has a slight red cast which I could dial out of course with additional M & Y.

In the darker areas I am getting a slight blue cast - I'm guessing that I either have to put up with this or have a yellower print?

Thanks for any help with printing daylight film negatives exposed under tungsten light.....

Matt

jd callow · Jan 25, 2009

A good starting point for removing the tungsten cast is to add 30y and 15m. You may find that your shadows are going blue/cyan. if so in the future you'll want to increase exposure when using daylight balanced film under tungsten light.

E76 · Jan 25, 2009

Unfortunately you're going to have to put up with the color cast, as you won't be able to correct it in the darkroom. Each layer of the film received different exposure as a result of being exposed to tungsten light, thereby shifting the characteristic curves of each layer horizontally. The enlarger will only allow you to shift the curves vertically (altering density).

JD is right when he says you should give additional exposure when shooting daylight film under tungsten illumination (as much as two stops more), or use an 80A color conversion filter for best results.

Matt5791 · Jan 25, 2009

Thanks for that - I added 20Y to get to where I am so I'll add a further 10Y and 15M in and try that.

Thanks for the tip on increasing exposure - what are we talking, 1 stop or something?

Matt

Matt5791 · Jan 25, 2009

Posts crossed.

I'll try 2 stops next time.

Also wanted to make sure the blue cast was typical of this type of negative - I was starting to worry I'd let the temperature slip or something.

Thanks,
Matt

nickandre · Jan 26, 2009

In tungsten light there is less blue light, similar green light, and more yellow light. With a daylight balanced film you need to bring the green and the yellow levels down to the blue level.

You either must use a now long dead tungsten balanced color negative film or you must use an 80A filter during exposure if you are in tungsten illumination. The color curves won't match and it gets ugly after correction.

Jessica · Jan 31, 2009

this is a very helpful thread for me too thanks so much! I'm going to use a softlight continuous 3200k light for a shoot I'm doing of my sister's newborn and portra nc 160 film. I'll get an 80A filter then as well. now on the filter I looked at that was the 80A it says "filter factor 2 (+1 stop) so do I still need to do +1 or will the filter be okay for when I meter without further adjusting when nI shoot?

Thanks for posting this and for everyone answering! I love it here!

E76 · Jan 31, 2009

An 80A filter actually has a factor of 4, requiring a +2 stop correction (I'm guessing you have a Lee Filter, they use "factor" when they mean "stops"). You will need to increase your exposure when metering, unless you're using a camera with TTL metering. In that case, the camera may take the filter into account without any adjustment.

jd callow · Jan 31, 2009

TTL = through the lens

Most SLR's are TTL and most rangefinders and point and shoots are not (the meter sits outside of the lens). A camera that measures light through the lens will automatically compensate for the filter as it meters the light coming into the lens -- in this case the filtered light.

An 80a generally requires 2 stops. If you are unsure how your camera meters. Check the meter of the camera on a white wall with out the filter, add the filter and see if the meter reading changes by about 2stops.

Photo Engineer · Jan 31, 2009

In situations like that, I have burned in the shadow a bit while using a blue filter. I would use about a 10 blue, or alternately a 10C + 10M placed over a card with a hole cut in it. This way you can expose just the shadows and you can adjust the exposure to get the right density.

PE

jd callow · Jan 31, 2009

If I understand what PE is advocating it is an excellent technique called a colour burn -- A combination of colour correcting for the mid's and changing the colour balance just for the shadows (highlights due to neg density can often be left alone) is great way to deal with the problem. It is the also the most difficult.

As it is you'll still need to pump a large sum of Yellow and Magenta into the image. After which if the shadows are weak and blue do the colour burn just on the shadows.

Jessica · Jan 31, 2009

I use a mamiya 645AF but I use a hand held meter. I'll remember this Thanks!

Jessica · Jan 31, 2009

oh, it's the cokin 80A filter I'm looking at....

Photo Engineer · Jan 31, 2009

Unless you have used a tungsten filter for correcting the daylight film, there will always be a problem. This is shown in Ctein's book "Post Exposure" by means of curves and prints. There is such a speed mismatch that you may never be able to get a satisfactory print even by dodging with filters.

PE

jd callow · Jan 31, 2009

This may be true, but sometimes you haven't a choice and need to work with what you have. I have had mixed success rescuing a print from a neg that has been shot under uncorrected man made light. In the end never let a 'rule' keep you from trying or doing something. A print with a slight yellow-orange cast can be very acceptable and even pleasing. Often if the neg has enough exposure and care is taken a print can be made when the the film and light are mis matched.

Photo Engineer · Jan 31, 2009

John;

I agree. I was merely pointing out that there may be such severe mismatches that what I suggest may end up yielding a poor result in spite of all of the best intentions. It is not a magic bullet.

PE

jd callow · Jan 31, 2009

Jessica said:
oh, it's the cokin 80A filter I'm looking at....

I have the cokin Fla and 80a filters, but can't tell you off of the top of my head how they compare to the more mainstream (expensive) filters. Maybe some one here will add their experience. Generally speaking you are better with a good glass screw on filter.

Photo Engineer said:
John;

I agree. I was merely pointing out that there may be such severe mismatches that what I suggest may end up yielding a poor result in spite of all of the best intentions. It is not a magic bullet.

PE

Agreed. I just worry that folks will read things here and that will keep them from experimenting.

Matt5791 · Feb 8, 2009

Thanks for the suggestions here PE & JD - I'll have a go at the colour burn if I can find a suitable filter (could I use my kodak viewing filters.......?)

I know what you mean that this will not work all the time, but is worth an experiment. Every neg is different. Also it can work with just a warm yellow look sometimes.

I ruled out an 80A at the time due to the filter factor.

Many thanks,
Matt

jd callow · Feb 8, 2009

Just reset the colour head on the enlarger. Do some tests to see what the best filter pack is for the bulk of the image, than fiddle with the settings (reduce the yellow and magenta by about 30 and 15 respectively as a start) and burn in the shadows. When you know what is needed for the main image (say 20sec's) and the burn for the shadows (say 5 secs with with the new Y and m filter pack) you will simply do the main exposure, cover the paper reset the colour head and timer, uncover the paper and burn in the shadows. Or burn in the shadows first and then do the main image.

Eliminating cast - tungsten light

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