Ektalure...

dangeresque · Jun 22, 2010

A friend recently gave me a small quantity of 8x10 Ektalure paper - approximately 40 sheets - part of a lot of paper he bought out of a retired pro's freezer. For whatever reason, he didn't want it for himself. I'm aware of the unique qualities of this paper, including how rare it is, and that makes me hesitant to even take it out of my freezer.

As for the paper itself, since I know it will be asked, it's about ten years expired; he says he's stored it at room temperature. The negatives I wish to experiment with are Tri-X 400 and APX 25, both 35mm. Both print very well on Ilford MGIV warmtone fiber at grade 2.5. (I use a LPL VC condenser.)

I have only logged a few dozen hours in the darkroom, so I am not an experienced printer. However, I do have good control of my process and my results are generally quite satisfactory. Do you have any recommendations or advice on working with this paper for the first time?

("Put it back in the freezer for 10 years" is welcome. I am serious about not wanting to waste one sheet.)

Many thanks.

chriscrawfordphoto · Jun 22, 2010

It is slow, you'll need more exposure than most papers need. It works best with warm tone developers. Kodak Selectol and Selectol-Soft were both warm developers that were GORGEOUS with Ektalure, but they're sadly long discontinued. Don't worry about wasting it, you'll simply have to waste some in order to learn its properties. It was a grade 3 paper, so for normal negs the lower contrast selectol-soft developer was best. As old as it is, it is likely no good anyway, I had some that old a long time ago and it was fogged so I tossed it. This was back when it was still made and someone had given it to me. I had a brand-new box on the shelf at the time so it wasn't a rare thing.

dangeresque · Jun 22, 2010

I actually bought some TD-31 a while ago after reading about Selectol Soft, I'll whip that up at some point.

Rick A · Jun 22, 2010

Stop what you are doing immediatly. Place the paper in a well padded envelope inside a well padded box and ship it to me right now! Of course, if you aren't willing to do that, slice one of the sheets into test strips and run a couple of tests to see what it'll give you. You may need some benzotriazole to brighten it up a bit, due to age.

Monophoto · Jun 22, 2010

chriscrawfordphoto said:
It is slow, you'll need more exposure than most papers need. It works best with warm tone developers. Kodak Selectol and Selectol-Soft were both warm developers that were GORGEOUS with Ektalure, but they're sadly long discontinued. Don't worry about wasting it, you'll simply have to waste some in order to learn its properties. It was a grade 3 paper, so for normal negs the lower contrast selectol-soft developer was best.

Great comments - let me add that untreated Ektalure tended to display a greenish tonality, but it responded very nicely to selenium toning to yield a beautify brownish-gray/black.

eddym · Jun 22, 2010

Ilford has a warmtone print developer that should go well with Ektalure. What surface is yours?

dangeresque · Jun 22, 2010

ralnphot said:
Stop what you are doing immediatly. Place the paper in a well padded envelope inside a well padded box and ship it to me right now! Of course, if you aren't willing to do that, slice one of the sheets into test strips and run a couple of tests to see what it'll give you. You may need some benzotriazole to brighten it up a bit, due to age.

I did precisely that this morning. When all was said and done I had 240 mL of 1% benzotriazole in about two liters of Dektol. Test strips went into the developer for three minutes. There is plenty of fog, no doubt about it. I compared strips developed using 30 mL and 240 mL under bright room light and saw no discernible difference. By comparison, 45 mL/L yields outstanding prints with no fog on old Polycontrast III.

For reasons beyond my comprehension, it lightens somewhat with about a minute in an alkaline bath of plain hypo.

While I don't really feel like messing around with fogged paper, I do not plan to throw the stuff away. If you want to experiment with it, PM me and it's yours.

eddym said:
Ilford has a warmtone print developer that should go well with Ektalure. What surface is yours?

G, I believe.

pgomena · Jun 22, 2010

Ektalure also is slow to clear in the fixer. Give it a full 5 minutes and a good wash afterward. Temperature consistency between all chemical baths is a good idea, too. When I was in photo school, some of the kids would get pronounced "pepper grain" if their chemicals were too far apart in temperature. Good luck! It's great paper in warm tone developer and a little selenium as others have said.

Peter Gomena

tac · Jun 22, 2010

I am a big fan of benzo for curing what ails you, and I might have some selectol soft around here somewhere if you want I should look- used to use a ton of the stuff, often mixing it in various proportions with dektol and h2o. Also got some old ektalure, the odd criss-cross patterned stuff.

dangeresque · Jun 22, 2010

pgomena said:
Ektalure also is slow to clear in the fixer. Give it a full 5 minutes and a good wash afterward. Temperature consistency between all chemical baths is a good idea, too. When I was in photo school, some of the kids would get pronounced "pepper grain" if their chemicals were too far apart in temperature. Good luck! It's great paper in warm tone developer and a little selenium as others have said.

Peter Gomena

I will fix new test strips for a full five minutes in fresh fixer tonight. In B&W paper processing my target temperature is normally 20 °C ± 1 °C.

tac said:
I am a big fan of benzo for curing what ails you, and I might have some selectol soft around here somewhere if you want I should look- used to use a ton of the stuff, often mixing it in various proportions with dektol and h2o. Also got some old ektalure, the odd criss-cross patterned stuff.

Sure, I would appreciate that.

Rich Ullsmith · Jun 24, 2010

Really doubt it was inadequate fixing that is causing your fog. I have been hoarding this paper for a while, and it seems to be a crapshoot as to what is fogged and what isn't. Of course, I have no clue how many dank basements or steamy attics the stuff has been stored in. As far as the extended fixing times: two-baths of film strength fixer, 30 seconds each, has always been sufficient.

Your paper might be worthless for conventional processing, but it will still work very well with lith processing. If B&W is something you will be doing for a while, I would put it back in the freezer in hopes that someday you discover lith.

dangeresque · Jul 1, 2010

As an update, I decided to make a few lith prints with this paper earlier this week. Addition of benzotriazole and exposure times around 30 seconds at f/2.8 gave outstanding results - clean whites, very good blacks - and it's absolutely beautiful in selenium. I did get an extremely gritty pattern of what looks like fog in some areas, which was at first a mild nuisance, but it lends itself to certain night scenes on pushed Tri-X and TMZ. Which happens to describe most of my negatives. Thanks, all!

Ray Rogers · Jul 1, 2010

I did get an extremely gritty pattern of what looks like fog...

Did you get this only with the lith process ?
Large qty of Benzo can do this with stubborn fog...

What does it look like... ?
I might be describing something different with the benz.

dangeresque · Jul 3, 2010

Yeah; with a regular process, I got complete and uniform gray in under one minute. I can't describe it very well but I'll scan in a print when I have time in the next few days and post it here.

Ray Rogers · Jul 3, 2010

dangeresque said:
I'll scan in a print when I have time in the next few days and post it here.

OK...

zsas · Apr 3, 2013

Resurrecting an old old thread to keep the topic in one place. Like the OP, I've some old Ektlure and printed some and saw some fog, so I've added 30ml of a 1% solution of benzotriazole (BZT) to my 1L of print dev. Thought since this is a photo site, thought I'd add a picture of the outcome in case anyone is wondering how BTZ impacts Ektlure FB. Below I have a photo of a standard MGIV FB glossy, w/o benzotriazole and with benzotriazole. It does make a bit of difference and a long fix (5 mins in a rapid fix sure helped too).

Fun paper! Love its texture and feel!

(Left - ref print, MGIV FB glossy, top no-BZT, bottom BZT):

(Left - ref print, MGIV FB glossy, top no-BZT, bottom BZT):

(Left - no-BTZ, Right BZT):

Edit - Here is (Left - ref print, MGIV FB glossy, top right no-BZT, middle right BZT, bottom BZT and 2 grams potassium bromide) - had to double exposure after it was added since print got much lighter but gosh - the fog is gone and the paper is nice n cream!!!):

Question - Is there anyway to cool this? Say KRST 1:40 or I guess gold toner?

Gerald C Koch · Apr 3, 2013

Let us have a moment's silence for all the great Kodak papers that are forever lost.

zsas · Apr 4, 2013

^Agree

Update, now they are nice n dry, I took a quick pic of them all, left to right:
Ref print MGIV FB glossy, Ektalure GD lustre straight print, Ektalure GD lustre with BZT (30ml of a 1% sol added to 1L of Liquidol), Ektalure GD lustre with BZT and 2 grams of potassium bromide:

noacronym · Apr 4, 2013

Gerald C Koch said:
Let us have a moment's silence for all the great Kodak papers that are forever lost.

I still wonder why Kodak discontinued paper in the 90's before there was any such thing as a digital camera. Of course I've wondered for many years why they did a lot of the things they did. I always felt like they went ga-ga with the packaging policies they adopted in the mid to late 70's. Developer used to come in a can and fixer in a box, and they had instruction leaflets in the little boxes of film. At some point they went environmentally ga-ga, before Political Correctness was even a phrase.

RPC · Apr 4, 2013

noacronym said:
I still wonder why Kodak discontinued paper in the 90's before there was any such thing as a digital camera.

By paper, do you mean Ektalure, or all B&W papers? B&W papers weren't discontinued altogether by Kodak until the mid 2000s.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 4, 2013

Excellent examples, Andy.

zsas said:
^Agree

Update, now they are nice n dry, I took a quick pic of them all, left to right:
Ref print MGIV FB glossy, Ektalure GD lustre straight print, Ektalure GD lustre with BZT (30ml of a 1% sol added to 1L of Liquidol), Ektalure GD lustre with BZT and 2 grams of potassium bromide:

Gerald C Koch · Apr 4, 2013

noacronym said:
I still wonder why Kodak discontinued paper in the 90's before there was any such thing as a digital camera.

The EPA banned the use of such paper additives as cadmium and lead salts. This elminated many classic papers.

noacronym · Apr 4, 2013

Gerald C Koch said:
The EPA banned the use of such paper additives as cadmium and lead salts. This elminated many classic papers.

Thank you Mr Koch. That explains a LOT. I need never again ask a question as to why Kodak did this or that. Don't know why it didn't occur to me before. Pondering it, I can just imagine the albatross Kodak had around their necks with that bunch. And for all that, today there are more devices with NiCd batteries floating around out there than ever. And the same bunch that outlawed the PX625 battery is the ones pushing mercury coiled lightbulbs. Non-Sequitur. I can just imagine what it must have been like after the EPA was created, to work at Kodak and some other companies. They were literally taking torpedoes on a continuing basis. I guess we should be glad there's any film at all now.

noacronym · Apr 4, 2013

zsas said:
^Agree

Update, now they are nice n dry, I took a quick pic of them all, left to right:
Ref print MGIV FB glossy, Ektalure GD lustre straight print, Ektalure GD lustre with BZT (30ml of a 1% sol added to 1L of Liquidol), Ektalure GD lustre with BZT and 2 grams of potassium bromide:

How much KBr to what volume of paper developer stock solution did you use? I have lots of old paper here and a jar of KBr.

zsas · Apr 4, 2013

Hi - I made 1L of Liquidol (which I mix stronger than recommended 143 Liquidol to 857ml water), then I added 30ml of a 1% sol of BZT and 2grams of potassium bromide.

I did not try to print w/o the BZT and Potassium Bromide so I am not sure if it would have worked out as well w/o both.

This thread inspired me to do "the double duty" (BZT and Potassium Bromide). The BZT alone didn't do as well as when I added in the Potassium Bromide.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

As I sit here and type, I've a Ektalure print that I did in BZT/potassium bromide in the wash after taking a 1min 20 sec bath in gold toner (T-26). Gosh does it pop! Will post a pic tomorrow or so after it drys.

Thomas, you are an old pro at Ektalure, does it work well with only potassium bromide or do you need the double duty of BZT and Potassium Bromide when the paper shows signs of fog? Thanks for the comments T.

Ektalure...

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