Ektachrome Price Drop

[thuggins]

I have notice that the place in NYC has been showing a price drop for Ektachrome for the past several week (120 size). It had been at about 14 bucks a roll, which was certainly quite high. It is now showing at just over 10 bucks a roll.

Does anyone have any insights on what is happening there? Is Kodak consciously lowering the price to be competitive with the Green Machine?

 

[Donald Qualls]

I'd guess that COVID-19 has slowed their business enough that they have some film in danger of becoming short-dated or actually expiring, and they're trying to move it before they have to discount it still further and take an actual loss (vs. giving up some margin).

 

[MattKing]

As Kodak Alaris doesn't sell direct to retailers, it probably means that the retailer has either switched to a different wholesale source, or one or more of the distributors have managed some economies of scale, resulting in a lower price to the retailer.
As 120 Ektachrome has only been out for a couple of months, it can't be short dated.
Unless, of course, the "place in New York" found a bunch of the old, now long out of date predecessor in a corner of the warehouse

 

[pentaxuser]

As Kodak Alaris doesn't sell direct to retailers, it probably means that the retailer has either switched to a different wholesale source, or one or more of the distributors have managed some economies of scale, resulting in a lower price to the retailer.

Or possibly that the retailer has decided to cut his own margin?

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

Retailers don't enjoy anything close to that sort of margin in the retail photography trade on most products.

 

[pentaxuser]

Retailers don't enjoy anything close to that sort of margin in the retail photography trade on most products.

So maybe a bit of all three, a cut in retail margin plus a different wholesale source or economies of scale? If it were only the latter two reasons then maybe it's time more retailers either changed their wholesale source or worked out how to achieve econs of scale .

A 28+ % drop must make it difficult for other retailers to compete so across the board a 28% drop in price on an already expensive film should attract a lot of customers to an extent that I'd have thought, that might put others out of business

If on the other hand it is a single price drop only then I'd have thought that it might be a decision by the NYC retailer to use it as a kind of loss leader in the hope that once there the customer spends enough on other products to make the drop in price worthwhile. It is an "eye catcher"

When I watch a programme called "Dragon's Den " here on the BBC, the entrepreneurs( the Dragons) from whom the supplicant is asking for the "Dragons" investment in return for a stake in the supplicant's company, they all home in on profit margin and unless the supplicant can demonstrate that the product already sells for a profit margin which is eye-watering he/she is shown the door

So is photographic retail so cut-throat that there is almost no chance of dropping retail price?

It will be interesting as we hit the biggest recession we may have ever seen as a result of COVID-19 to see what happens to prices including photographic materials prices

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

So is photographic retail so cut-throat that there is almost no chance of dropping retail price?

Quoting/paraphrasing a manager in one of the stores in a local camera store chain.
"The only products we sell that have any real margin are camera bags and some of the accessories. The internet marketplace means that we have very little to work with on price."
Even back when I worked in photo retail there was very little margin on cameras or film. If I sold a $300.00 camera and a $25.00 filter, my store might very well have made more profit on the filter than the camera.
One of my managers was an expert at inventory control. He was excellent at timing our 35mm Kodachrome orders so well that each order would be sold out before payment for it was due. It was that quick turnover that made it profitable, not the narrow margin.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have notice that the place in NYC has been showing a price drop for Ektachrome for the past several week (120 size). It had been at about 14 bucks a roll, which was certainly quite high. It is now showing at just over 10 bucks a roll.

Does anyone have any insights on what is happening there? Is Kodak consciously lowering the price to be competitive with the Green Machine?

Oh no, we can't have that! What will the Kodak haters say and do?

 

[Agulliver]

Profit margins for retailers on film are WAY smaller than that. I have been quoted margins significantly under 5%. Why else do you think they always try and sell you filters, straps, cleaning cloths, bags etc? That's where the margins are.

From what I am hearing from retailers in the UK who are still operating online, film sales jumped up because people were panic buying but are now at normal levels. People have not stopped buying film. If the same is true on the other side of the Atlantic, then it's unlikely that the boys in NYC have film that's about to expire. Though it is possible the markets reacted differently as I understand there is far less government help for people who are unable to work over there. Whereas I'm basically being paid not to work and to stay at home and wander the fields close to home taking photographs. Maybe the good people of New York and the rest of America simply can't afford to buy film and it has been unsold?

 

[David Brown]

Oh no, we can't have that! What will the Kodak haters say and do?

You made me snort my drink!

 

[ColdEye]

The 5 pack of 120 has always been around $50-$53 dollars, they are just breaking them up.

 

[pentaxuser]

The 5 pack of 120 has always been around $50-$53 dollars, they are just breaking them up.

So no price drop really. Mind you if film is on a small profit margin then I wonder how putting together a brick of 5 ensures that you still have a profit at effectively $5 less per film

If on the other hand the NYC retailer has found a better wholesaler or better economies of scale then you'd think that such improvement would operate on a whole range of its goods so on that basis you'd expect a whole range of prices to drop, wouldn't you.

This brings me back to a loss leader to generate business. If others can reconcile the better economies of scale or better wholesale agent with just one item's large decrease in price then please do so.

There has to be an explanation that covers all the angles, doesn't there?

Not sure who or what the Green machine is but I'd doubt that Kodak has suddenly decided that it can reduce its price by 28% as the explanation.

I hadn't noticed any sign of Kodak hating yet in the thread so an introduction of this may only unintentionally serve as a diversion from a collective attempt to get to an explanation that covers "all the angles"

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

If on the other hand the NYC retailer has found a better wholesaler or better economies of scale then you'd think that such improvement would operate on a whole range of its goods so on that basis you'd expect a whole range of prices to drop, wouldn't you.

It doesn't work that way any more.
The days when wholesaler maintained large inventories and had the ability to fill whatever size order a retailer wanted are in the past.
Everybody is minimizing inventory and doing their best to just market product.
Drop shipping is all the rage - distributors take the order, place it with the manufacturer (or another distributor) and have the product shipped directly.
Shipping expenses form a greater and greater portion of the landed costs born by retailers.
Minimum order requirements are going up and up.
That was why it was very good news last year when Kodak Alaris announced a reduction in the minimum order quantities for many of their black and white darkroom chemicals.

The 5 pack of 120 has always been around $50-$53 dollars, they are just breaking them up.

Kodak Alaris hasn't sold single roll packaged film for any of their professional films for some time. Any retailer who has sold single rolls has been breaking up the packages for a while.

 

[pentaxuser]

So what might be the explanation of why and how the nameless NYC retailer might now be able to drop its Ektachrome price by $4 per roll? I am assuming in all of this that the OP is correct in stating that the drop in price is as stated, namely $4 per roll

As I said there has to be an explanation which reconciles all the known facts. I am looking to get to the truth as a worthwhile end in itself. I don't use either the NYC retailer or the product in question so I have "no axe to grind" except an interest in what are the reason(s) for this happening

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

So what might be the explanation of why and how the nameless NYC retailer might now be able to drop its Ektachrome price by $4 per roll? I am assuming in all of this that the OP is correct in stating that the drop in price is as stated, namely $4 per roll

The demand is both up and stabilized, and they are able to make the decision to increase their risk and place a bigger order with one of the potential wholesale suppliers. That supplier is, in turn, able to make the decision to increase their risk and agree to fulfill that order (and possibly orders from other retailers) by contracting to buy the film from Kodak Alaris.
Kodak Alaris is, in turn, able to make the decision to increase their risk and place a bigger order with Eastman Kodak to have the film manufactured.
Eastman Kodak is, in turn, able to make the decision to increase their risk and place a bigger order with the suppliers of the constituent chemicals necessary to have the film manufactured.
As the film is so new, and as the chemical constituent orders often take months to fill, at least some of these decisions happened months ago, and involved real risks, and real projections (aka guesses). In many cases, there were probably discussions with financial committees, accountants and bankers - with orders in hand, retailers, distributors, Kodak Alaris and Eastman Kodak all need to have credit in place in order to make the necessary financial commitments to fulfill the orders. Neither Eastman Kodak nor Kodak Alaris have enough capital to be able to ignore this latter issue.
In essence, this is a very new product, and the first batch(es) were almost speculative in nature. It is not hard to understand why the initial price would reflect uncertainty and low volumes.

 

[pentaxuser]

So based on these reasons, Matt, we can expect the price of Ektachrome to drop everywhere as we seem to be in a virtuous circle as opposed to a vicious circle?

So if the demand for Acros II mirrors this same virtuous circle we can expect the same trend in the price of it? I use this simply as an example of the apparent benefits of this virtuous circle of events you describe.

Do you happen to know by how much the demand for Ektachrome has grown and how this translates into the price drop.?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

I don't know that you can count any more on consistency of pricing. My local camera store probably cannot buy Ektachrome 120 for the price that the big New York stores sell it at.
Remember that this is a new film - less than half of one year old. Remember also that supplies started out very limited. Any measurement of "growth" is unlikely to be reliable.
The limited amounts that were originally available sold quickly, so they made more.
If and when we get to some consistency of availability and sales, then you may be able to count on some consistency of pricing within individual markets.

 

[Wallendo]

The retailer in NYC From which I usually order tends to frequently adjust prices. Although many of the price changes produce panic threads on this site, they generally are not harbingers of big events.

 

[thuggins]

The 5 pack of 120 has always been around $50-$53 dollars, they are just breaking them up.

This is not true. The going rate was around $64 per 5 pack. I paid this same amount from several vendors, including the one now showing a price drop. And although this vendor has been known for some unscrupulous practices in the past, advertising a price drop where there is no price drop is a bit beyond the pale.

Check the price difference between Ektachrome and Provia in 4x5 to see the extent of mark-up.