EI200 for ISO100 films... Have you liked it?

Juan Valdenebro · Jun 10, 2021

https://i.redd.it/85s2v87q0ha41.jpg

TMax100 at EI200... With a humble tiny Olympus XA.
It looks like more than enough for street IMO, and I can't imagine that image being better by using ISO400 film.

Juan Valdenebro · Jun 10, 2021

RalphLambrecht said:
very true;when one is after more film sensitivity, one is always better off going for a higher-sensitivity film than pushing a low- sensitivity film

As I explained in post 1, I'm not looking for more speed (I photograph at EI640 every day): I'm looking for nearly two stops less speed, to use a 28mm without stopping it down as I do all the time with my other lenses when I do street.

Juan Valdenebro · Jun 10, 2021

By the way, I once used TMX at EI160 in D-76 (1+1: long before I started using D-76 stock), and even diluted, D-76 got great tone from TMX at that EI... But I have never tried EI200. Not too far, anyway... It wasn't inside a system or any constant way of exposing: just a mistake... I had metered for Portra 160 the day before, but while metering for TMX I thought my incident meter was at 100 as usual.

Juan Valdenebro · Jun 10, 2021

I think what Ralph said, comes from the care we should take with tone when we do direct sunlight scenes: in that case, it's true generous exposure and short development are the good option, and in that case, a very academic use of ISO400 film (EI200) would treat highlights -and shadows- the right way...
But that's not the case here: this thread is about soft overcast light only, with ISO100 film only, as it was explained in the beginning.

MattKing · Jun 10, 2021

Juan Valdenebro said:
Dear Ralph,
Please allow me to remind you Kodak say TMax100 at EI200 is not a push.

I know what you are saying, but under-exposure is never a "push".
A "push" is a modification of development time. A "push" has nothing to do with film exposure - other than the fact that an increase in development time is called a "push" if it accompanies under-exposure, whereas it is called "expansion" if it is intended to increase contrast in a correctly exposed negative.
Kodak doesn't say TMax100 at EI 200 is not a "push". Kodak says don't "push" TMax 100 at EI 200, because your results won't be as good as if you develop normally.

Juan Valdenebro · Jun 10, 2021

Matt, what I meant was Kodak say TMax100 at EI200 doesn't imply a push. The reason is, the film works well at EI200.

Juan Valdenebro · Jun 10, 2021

https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Times/TMX100/tmx100.html

It's curious here we see the fastest EI for TMX comes from rodinal!
If the film can reach EI160 for soft light expansion in Rodinal (a speed losing developer in general), I'm sure EI200 is no real underexposure with TMX, and most developers can do a good job with it at EI200.

Juan Valdenebro · Jun 10, 2021

MattKing said:
I know what you are saying, but under-exposure is never a "push".
A "push" is a modification of development time. A "push" has nothing to do with film exposure - other than the fact that an increase in development time is called a "push" if it accompanies under-exposure, whereas it is called "expansion" if it is intended to increase contrast in a correctly exposed negative.
Kodak doesn't say TMax100 at EI 200 is not a "push". Kodak says don't "push" TMax 100 at EI 200, because your results won't be as good as if you develop normally.

That's not totally true.
It's true for very high contrast scenes, but it's false for other lower contrast situations.
Results can be better, depending on scene contrast, if we expose at a different EI (not EI100) and if we develop a bit longer than Kodak's time.
Evidently Kodak tries to protect high contrast highlights, and tries to keep grain small (mainly for people who don't understand materials) but that doesn't mean all scenes should be metered and developed the same way always. Not at all.

MattKing · Jun 11, 2021

Juan Valdenebro said:
That's not totally true.
It's true for very high contrast scenes, but it's false for other lower contrast situations.
Results can be better, depending on scene contrast, if we expose at a different EI (not EI100) and if we develop a bit longer than Kodak's time.
Evidently Kodak tries to protect high contrast highlights, and tries to keep grain small (mainly for people who don't understand materials) but that doesn't mean all scenes should be metered and developed the same way always. Not at all.

If you have a low contrast scene, there is little benefit to be achieved by reducing exposure.
If your scene has a reasonably wide range of tones but the lighting contrast is lower than average, don't decrease exposure with TMax 100, just apply some expansion: in other words increase development.
If you are forced to under-expose T-Max 100, and contrast starts out as normal, don't increase it with increased development - that is what Kodak is recommending.

Juan Valdenebro · Jun 12, 2021

"Many people advocate shooting Tri-X and other ISO 400 films at EI 200 to improve shadow detail and gradation, but for me, TMX or Acros at EI 200 are clearly superior to any ISO 400 film at EI 200. EI 200 is fast enough for me to shoot handheld in available light, even with my slow, MF lenses."
Jay de Fehr (Photo.net, 2007)

Paul Howell · Jun 12, 2021

I agree, I see no reason to shoot a high speed film at half ISO, that said, in the old days of mechanical shutters not so accurate TTL meters, bottom centered, centered metering, a high speed film may perform better at a lower ISO, the E.I or personal ISO, determined by testing not by a general rule of thumb. My 35mm with electronic shutters and matrix metering all shoot a box speed when developed in D76, HC110, Rodinal, my older mechanical beasts are all over the map. Tmax 100 can be shot at 200 without loss of shadow detail. When traveling I use TMAX 400 shot at 400 or 800 as I need to speed to compensate for slow zooms.

NB23 · Jun 13, 2021

So much perfectionism here. Are the subject and compositions any good, at least?

Bill Burk · Jun 13, 2021

Juan Valdenebro said:
Dear Ralph,
Please allow me to remind you Kodak say TMax100 at EI200 is not a push.

Just to turn the phrase: TMAX 400 at 200 is not a pull either... you can develop as for push even if you reduce the speed.
In other words, to get an effective 200 speed with high contrast development, you can use a 400 speed film and still push.

Lie to the lab if you don't develop your own. Shoot it at 200 and tell the lab you shot it at 1600.

EI200 for ISO100 films... Have you liked it?

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