Efke sudden death

jandc · May 28, 2006

chiller said:
Firstly I love efke and this is not a knocking post.

I have just had a very unusual problem arise. All of a sudden my Efke negatives are as flat as flat. No contrast.

Developers use to test -- D76 -- Rodinal -- HC110

All negatives returned the same or similar density from each developer.

Light meters -- all returned the same readings. Gossen, Minolta and Soligor spot.

Thermometer == all three the same reading as they always have.

Timer [x2] both the same.

Anything I have missed?

Or has anyone had similar with a sudden change of contrast in the middle of a box? Film has been stored correctly.

Steve

Steve,

This sounds very odd. What is hard to understand is how a box of film can change in the middle of a box. Each sheet is essentially the sheet next to it on the master roll. The only thing that makes sense is some kind of environmental damage after the fact. However, you indicate the film was stored correctly. So at this moment at 8:15 on a Sunday night I don't have an answer for you. I have received your PM and email on this topic also. I will look into it tomorrow and we'll see if we can get to the bottom of this.

John

jandc · May 28, 2006

Donald Miller said:
Check the emulsion number on the box and get with whomever sold you the film. I had an instance a couple of months ago where some film other then Efke 100 (it tested as 25 ISO) made it into a Efke100 box. The negatives were underexposed and flat.

This was 4X5 film. In my case, John at JandC provided his usual fine service and replaced the film.

In this case Donald had gotten Efke 25 mis-packaged as Efke 100. All the sheets were the same, there was no shift in mid box. This is clearly something different.

jandc · May 28, 2006

haris said:
Last time when I bought 2 rolls of EFKE 35mm film (100 ISO), about year ago, under EFKE sticker on canisters were originally Lucky film stickers...

So did you really bought EFKE film when bought box of film on which is written EFKE. How do you know what film Fotokemika packed in EFKE box

Nothing surprized me anymore when EFKE or Fotokemika is in question...

EFKE is good film by my experience, but when you use EFKE film. I mean, if on packadging box or canister wrote EFKE, that doesnt meant you really use EFKE film .

I can't tell you what Fotokemika is selling over there or on gray markets to people. There have been a lot of stories. However, all the efke 25, 50 and 100 film we sell is produced in the Fotokemika factory and is not another film re-labeled as Efke.

jandc · May 28, 2006

david b said:
Just another reason to support Ilford. Their film is THEIR film, not repackaged. The stuff is well tested and QC is top notch.

I've never had an issue with them.

So you support Kodak and Fuji too I assume? Their film is THEIR film, not repackaged. The stuff is well tested and QC is top notch.

mark · May 28, 2006

thanks David. I have some figuring to do. And some testing. It is most likely my fault.

Tom Hoskinson · May 28, 2006

I continue to shoot and process Efke 25 and Efke 100 (35mm, 120 roll, 5x7 and 8x10) with no problems.

I'm just winding up the last of my developer comparison tests (Pyrocat-HD, Pyrocat P and Pyrocat MC).

The test films have been Efke 100 and Efke 25, TMAX400 and TMAX100.

By the way, the development uniformity has been excellent throughout.

George Papantoniou · May 29, 2006

I've only been shooting some Ortho film from Efke lately, and had no problem at all. I intend to get some Efke 25 soon, so I'll see what this'll give...

chiller · May 29, 2006

Up date

First I wish to thank John for his prompt response on this matter.

I have spent a good part of today checking everything in my system and have no obvious problems.

It seems to me that the film has certainly changed mid box and the next new box from the freezer is similar. By a step wedge comparison it is 2 stops less than the original tests I ran when I got the film.

I intend to try again tomorrow to determine if there is any fault on my part but I have ruled that out by mixing frresh developer and using two different developers. I have 3 exposure meters that are all very close .1 EV and the light has been very constant here in Australia for the past week.

I ran real tests today on a new emulsion batch number and it is exactly as I expected it to be. Wonderful negatives.

I notice a bit of bagging of the Efke product and that was not my intention.

As for Ilford --- I decided to run a standards style test with a totally different film in a fresh batch of developer. I purchased a brand new box of Delta 100 this morning and when I opened it ALL the film was stuck together down one side AND was badly fogged. The retailer has refunded my money and contacted the Australian Ilford distributor.

I am not bitching about Efke or JandC. Up to this point I have and continue to be very happy with both but there is a certain mentality that pervades groups such as this to bag or run down so called "cheap" or "lesser" labelled products. Efke film is superb. Something unusual has happened and even at this stage I'm keeping my options open that there is something I have missed. I don't think so but I'm remaining open minded.

I will continue to use Efke and JandC's service to send film to me in Australia was first class.

If I find anything I have done incorrectly I will report it back to this forum.

Jim Chinn · May 29, 2006

I split some Efke 100 with a friend a year ago and never had a problem. He bought from J&C.

But this post does bring up the value of discussing such issues quickly and posting batch/lot numbers so if their are problems they can be located and dealt with.

I like the Efke but in light of this thread I will probably pull a couple of sheets from any new purchase and test to make sure labeling is correct.

Gerald Koch · May 30, 2006

chiller said:
Anything I have missed?

Steve

Not mentioned is whether any filter was used. Since the Efke films are "panorthochromatic" they have limited red sensitivity so using a red or dark orange filter will result in a substancial loss of film speed. These are good films but require some familiarization on the part of the user.

David A. Goldfarb · May 30, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
Not mentioned is whether any filter was used. Since the Efke films are "panorthochromatic" they have limited red sensitivity so using a red or dark orange filter will result in a substancial loss of film speed. These are good films but require some familiarization on the part of the user.

I believe that this is true of Efke 25 and 50, but not 100.

Jerevan · May 30, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
Since the Efke films are "panorthochromatic" they have limited red sensitivity so using a red or dark orange filter will result in a substancial loss of film speed.

Okay, just going off on a sidetrack;

I know orthocromatic film is sensitive to only blue and green light and panchromatic film is sensitive to all of the visible spectrum. The term "panorthochromatic" sounds thus like an excellent oxymoron!

mmcclellan · May 31, 2006

Efke 25 in 35mm is the only Efke film I have used, but that stuff is unbelievable! Incredible quality, awesome tonality, unbeatable resolution -- top notch all the way. I shoot it at EI 16 and develop in Rodinal or R-09, having tested for film speed and development times. Never had the slightest QC problem with it, either.

As for sheet film, I assume it is notched like other sheet films. Are the notches the same on those sheets that have gone haywire? Any chance they're notched differently so that somehow sheets got mixed up? Just a thought . . .

David A. Goldfarb · May 31, 2006

Actually, the notch on Efke films doesn't identify the film. It only tells you which side is the emulsion side.

chrisf · Jun 1, 2006

I have been without my beloved Efke films since January when I bought 25 and 100 in 5x7. They were cut for the European market and hence too big to fit my film holders. I'm still waiting for a replacement. Anyone else have this problem? Any idea when I'll see a replacement.

BradS · Jun 1, 2006

Changeling1 said:
Yet one more example of why Kodak's film division should be nationalized!

huh? I don't want to get into it with the politics but...you're joking - right?

chiller · Jun 5, 2006

The outcome.

Recently I posted to the forum that I had a problem with a particular batch of Efke 100 film. I indicated that it had changed speed midway through the box but on examining my notes I found I had loaded 12 holders from the new box and as these were not readily to hand I loaded a fresh holder with what would have been sheet 25. This sheet was much thinner in density compared to negatives done the previous day but with a different emulsion batch. That realisation removed a major problem in my mind as it now was obvious after shooting one of the previous holders from the begining of the suspect box that it was the same density as sheet 25.

John from JandC contacted me very promptly and after a few emails we concluded that the film was in fact 50 ISO in the 100 ISO box.

John's follow up was excellent. In a case such as film the retailer is unable to know conclusively if a fault [major or minor] exists with a product until a customer identifies it. And this is a rare event.

From a customer's point of view I have nothing but praise for the professional manner this has been handled and have no problem dealing internationally with JandC

I have not changed my mind about using Efke film, it is a wonderful product.

Steve Nicholls

Gerald Koch · Jun 6, 2006

Jerevan said:
Okay, just going off on a sidetrack;

I know orthocromatic film is sensitive to only blue and green light and panchromatic film is sensitive to all of the visible spectrum. The term "panorthochromatic" sounds thus like an excellent oxymoron!

You're right!; but unfortunately this is the term that was coined for an orthochromatic film with some red sensitivity. Of course, orthochromatic is not a very good term either. It means "correct" color rendition which it does not really have, merely having only better rendition than color blind materials that are only sensitive to blue light.

Willie Jan · Jun 11, 2006

fotoimpex Germany send me some new 100 asa batch 4x5 film packs to test it out.
I like it when a company takes a customer seriously.

Efke sudden death

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