Efke sheet films, QC problems?

Sportera · Sep 5, 2007

I have just finished a box of 50 sheets of Efke 25. I love the film but almost half of the box was cut larger than 4x5. The sheets would not fit in my holders, that is to say over half of the box was like 4.2x5.2 inches.

I was so disgusted I through away those that were too large. When viewed in the light it was obvious that the sheets were all different sizes.

The film is a good film, however I will not be purchasing anymore.

Anyone else have issues with EFKE films?

Photo Engineer · Sep 5, 2007

There are several threads on this subject, size probelms and coating defects.

PE

Clueless · Sep 5, 2007

Irregularites in size Folder

If there were a folder that such irregularies were filed the pattern whether rare, irregular or typical their batch number would help others avoid the cost and frustration. A film, paper, chemicals by size, date and batch ID list might keep the mfg on their toes. When they march us off into the economic woods of darkness one by one we can't expose the villians. Recalls could also be listed; the only one I recall is the small packets of Xtol.

wildbill · Sep 5, 2007

I haven't had that issue but i've used 8x10 without notches cut in about half the sheets of a box. Freestyle replaced the film. It's too bad because i love the film's characteristics.
vinny

Photo Engineer · Sep 5, 2007

You might also find dust spots in the film emulsion itself, flakes, hair, soft coatings and irregular coatings all reported previously here and on Photo Net.

I don't claim to have seen this but merely report that seen in other posts.

PE

aldevo · Sep 5, 2007

The emulsions of Efke films are extremely soft and prone to damage. Initially, I tried using hardening fixers with them - but this didn't cure the problem. It seems emulsion damage was occurring before the fixing step.

Currently, I only use these films with staining developers that tan the gelatin - making it far less susceptible to physical damage. While this has reduced the number of damaged frames substantially, it does not eliminate damage caused by emulsion defects introduced during manufacture - which seem to occur with disappointing regularity. I have experienced the "hair" issue that PE refers to, and I have also encountered trouble with felt debris from the light seal finding their way onto the first serveral frames of a roll.

The bottom line is I do not feel comfortable using Efke films for work that I consider critical.

Alex Hawley · Sep 5, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
You might also find dust spots in the film emulsion itself, flakes, hair, soft coatings and irregular coatings all reported previously here and on Photo Net.

I don't claim to have seen this but merely report that seen in other posts.

PE

I've seen all the defects PE mentions above in one box of 8x10 PL100. Its sad because the film has really good characteristics and I bought it because of those reputedly good characteristics. I've made some very good photos from it. It still works reasonably well in low contrast situations or where there is a high degree of texture throughout the frame. In those two situations, the uneven coating does not have such a visible effect. But in bright sun with a landscape scene, forget it. I've taken many otherwise beautiful photos this last year only to have splotches and streaks running through the prints.

Unless Efke makes a demonstrated improvement in their QC in the next few months, I'll not be buying it again. I'll be sticking with forever reliable Kodak and Ilford film, and gladly paying their higher prices.

Chris Breitenstein · Sep 5, 2007

I used Efke for a while and discovered that their quality control was far from acceptable. Unevenly coated emulsion was my biggest gripe. A scene with smooth tonalities would come out wavy and uneven. In my experience no film pushes better then Efke.

Yours;

david b · Sep 5, 2007

I tried Efke PL100 in 4x5 and had nothing but headaches. Peeling emulsion and scratches.

So I've got a box of PL100 and some Adox if anyone wants it.

eumenius · Sep 5, 2007

How very strange! And this is my favorite film by now... or maybe I am this lucky to avoid troubles with it?

david b said:
I tried Efke PL100 in 4x5 and had nothing but headaches. Peeling emulsion and scratches.

So I've got a box of PL100 and some Adox if anyone wants it.

Photo Engineer · Sep 5, 2007

Just as a side thought, film that continues to harden, when coated on an incorrect substrate will peel off during process when the film reaches a certain hardness (age).

This is not inconsistant with what Eumenius and David see.

I might also add that I have had a lot of off-line comments about EFKE quality which I cannot confirm, but I do have one batch of LF film which has a sine wave pattern in the coating. This is exactly what Chris describes. It makes the film unusable when certain scenes are photographed.

PE

JLP · Sep 5, 2007

Also really liked the PL100 but stopped using it after a number of what could have been nice photos was ruined by the emulsion imperfection.
Still use Efke 25 and have so far not had the same problems as with PL100

jan

mikebarger · Sep 5, 2007

I've gone the same route Alex mentinoned.

I liked the film, but not the headaches. Lord knows I have a hard enough time getting a good shot/negative without the film goofing it up.

I bought a bunch of the rebadged Ilford HP5 from Freestyle. I ordered late enough in the process I had to call to confirm they actually still had some in stock (4x5). No issues with this film.

I would jump at Kodak Tri-X (400) in 4x5 if I got the chance.

Mike

Shawn Dougherty · Sep 5, 2007

I'd steer clear of it, Sam. I've experienced problems with the coating and know 3 other LF photographers who have as well (none of them posted in the thread). Obviously this is a serious problem. As other's have said, it's a shame because they have some great emulsions. Best. Shawn

Alex Hawley · Sep 5, 2007

Worst Example I have Found

Here's a scan showing the subject problems. This is the worst one I have had. I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned, and could not get rid of these blemishes. They are in the emulsion itself.

All of the landscapes I have taken with PL100 show the vertical banding which is due to uneven emulsion coating. This is irregardless of development method. This example was developed with extreme minimal agitation but I see the same thing using brush or standard tray techniques.

Added the second scan; same place but entirely different camera and lens. The first scan was taken in March 2007, the second one taken in July 2007 and brush developed. Entirely different box of PL100. Same problems.

RobertP · Sep 5, 2007

I've been shooting Pl 50 In 8x20 and It is a great film. No QC issues at all. I've been using Pl100 and I guess I must have been lucky because I haven't deen any banding problems at all. But I have recently seen the banding in Tmax 400 with 12x20 film.

rwyoung · Sep 5, 2007

Alex Hawley said:
Here's a scan showing the subject problems. This is the worst one I have had. I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned, and could not get rid of these blemishes. They are in the emulsion itself.

Your sig-line should be "Striping by Efke"!

Alex Hawley · Sep 5, 2007

rwyoung said:
Your sig-line should be "Striping by Efke"!

Hey, not a bad idea Rob. Change forthcoming.

Photo Engineer · Sep 5, 2007

Alex;

That problem you see is a classic one due to either an oscillating pump or an oscillating drive motor on the coating machine.

Other possible sources could be either variable pressure in the chill cabinet or a pressure fluctuation in the vacuum lines. These latter two are more dependant on machine configuration, but the first ones are universal to any type of coating machine.

It is easily detected on the master rolls by simple inspection. The larger the format, the more pronounced it can be. It can be nearly invisible on 35mm film.

PE

Michael Kadillak · Sep 5, 2007

Efke FIlm QC Problems

There is nothing quite as frustrating as emulsion defects, spots and light banding on an image that you carefully composed, exposed and developed.

When the lower cost of Efke is considered in the context of needing to shoot at least two sheets to improve your odds of acceptable results, the economic benefits are gone.

I gave away an unopened box of 11x14 Efke and threw away two boxes of 8x10 and 8x20 Efke that seemed wraught with defects and now only use T Max 400. That said I have NEVER had an issue with Kodak film producing exactly what I expected.

I have learned in life that most of the time you get what you pay for.

Cheers!

P C Headland · Sep 5, 2007

david b said:
I tried Efke PL100 in 4x5 and had nothing but headaches. Peeling emulsion and scratches.

So I've got a box of PL100 and some Adox if anyone wants it.

You can send it to me if you like

I use Efke 25 and 100 in 120, 9x12cm and 4x5", and haven't had a single problem that wasn't of my own making. Well, apart from the 120 film being rather curly.... Strangely, the degree of curl seems developer dependant - very curly with PC-TEA, a little less so with Rodinal, and moderately flat when developed in Diafine.

All my film was bought through a UK retailer. I wonder whether or not it was related to a particular batch/run/period?

Alex Hawley · Sep 5, 2007

P C Headland said:
All my film was bought through a UK retailer. I wonder whether or not it was related to a particular batch/run/period?

The machinery problems that induce the uneven coating only get worse as time goes on. I have a box of 4x5 PL25 which hasn't shown any problems yet. I got it second hand so its a few years old. I bought into PL100 last year based on the good reviews it had been getting here in the USA. However, looking back, I think people had started reporting the defects somewhat before that. I guess I just didn't pay enough attention to those reports.

aldevo · Sep 5, 2007

P C Headland said:
You can send it to me if you like

I use Efke 25 and 100 in 120, 9x12cm and 4x5", and haven't had a single problem that wasn't of my own making. Well, apart from the 120 film being rather curly.... Strangely, the degree of curl seems developer dependant - very curly with PC-TEA, a little less so with Rodinal, and moderately flat when developed in Diafine.

All my film was bought through a UK retailer. I wonder whether or not it was related to a particular batch/run/period?

Efke is a very small outfit having only about 25 people invovled in its production operation. It produces its film and paper at intervals (i.e. they do "runs" not continuous production).

I'm not a photoscientist or engineer, but numerous intermittent runs tends not to be the best way to go about achieving the highest quality control.

The Efke KB25 film has many qualities I like so I hope they can improve their QC with time.

Jim Fitzgerald · Sep 5, 2007

I have also fallen in love with the Efke PL-25 and 100 films. I have found the look I've been after for a long time. I hope this problem gets fixed.

Jim

juan · Sep 6, 2007

I used PL100 in 2x3, 4x5 and 8x10 for several years with good results. However, the film I got from JandC about a year and a half ago has the banding problems. I took an unexposed sheet out of the box and looked at it - I could see the inconsistent emulsion in the light.
juan

Efke sheet films, QC problems?

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