Efke R25 has thinner backing paper?

So here's a weird one. I love my DaYi 617 back (like this one), so far I've put through a couple of ektar and a helluva lot of Velvia with no problems.
But I thought I'd grab a B+W roll this time, and picked an Efke R25 out of the freezer.
As you can see, the backing paper numbers have come straight through and burned into the film, right where the three windows are to see the numbers when winding on.
The DaYi back has no red window, just a straight hole to the paper, I keep it closed unless when winding on, and as you can see from the photo, I'm facing into the sun so didn't think it'd be a problem.
It's on almost every shot on this roll, some others were shot in fairly shady locations, but still has the number. (I wind on straight after taking the shot so I don't forget)
The weird thing is, it's just on the Efke, never see it on RVP50, RVP100F, nor Ektar. Is Efke just that much thinner backing paper?
I've taken the back apart and put in a 'filter' (two stacked offcut ends of an Ektar roll), I can just make out the numbers underneath in room-light (haven't tested in sun yet), but will it be enough? Or is orange-base no good, will I need something deeper-red?



pity, it would have been a decent shot too (although it's nowhere I can't shoot again, on the way to my shack).

Try three rather than two should be difficult to read outdoors but shade from sun and a light proof cover when not winding.

I can't wind one of mine indoors unless inches from table lamp.

Several of mine are difficult even in good light.

Red should be no better with modern film spectral sensitivity but there are art supplies you can use close to OEM specification for cameras.

Dear Dr.Croubie,

Most unfortunate. We have seen this many times on APUG, this is called in the trade 'wrapper offset' where the printed sections of the wrapper are exposed onto the film.

This can be caused by wrapper quality ( 120 film wrapper is actually a very complex and controlled manufacturing process ) but is usually caused by the 'red window' or the 'film advance' window on some camera's being exposed to excessive levels of light, or indeed by keeping exposed roll film in a camera of this type for an extended period of time ( even protected from light ).

REGARDLESS : when using cameras that have this feature ( or indeed some 'toy' cameras ) you must load in subdued light, when advancing the film absolutely keep it out of direct sunlight and store the camera in a light proof environment such as a camera bag.

It is also one of the main reasons for 'foiling' 120 roll film.

Quite often you see questions like 'why is writing on the back of ILFORD roll films so feint ?' the answer is simple, it is one of the 'insurance policies' in our QC procedures that make wrapper offset less likely to occur.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Simon nailed the problem straight up. If there is no safety cover over the red window, then a piece of black tape over it will suffice. Only lift the covering long enough to advance the film, never advance or load in bright sunlight. If you are in bright light, hold the camera close to your body and bend over to shade it while advancing film.

Thanks all, unfortunately I'm just going to chalk this one up as a learning experience.
I still find it strange that it's only the Efke that's had this problem, none of the other rolls have seen this (and Ektar/RVP100 are two stops faster than the Efke R25). Must be something about the paper they used, or maybe 12 years in a freezer didn't do it much good. At least it wasn't the 'Shanghai GP3 Dots' that I've also had in a camera with no windows, but that's a totally different problem as we know.

The DaYi is the only back I've got with a window for winding on (except the Rolleicord and Kiev backs that use the window only to start), I thought it'd be fine but it looks like those 3 seconds with the window open when winding on was enough to ruin it. Still, I think I'll relegate my remaining R25 to the 6x9 Graphic 23 with click-stop wind on, and next time bring PanF for the 617...

I have had EFKE transfer numbers with the "no window" style camera, But your result does look like exposure through the paper. WHich is why I have been buying a higher proportion of my film supply from my Ilford dealer.

cmacd123 said:

I have had EFKE transfer numbers with the "no window" style camera, But your result does look like exposure through the paper. WHich is why I have been buying a higher proportion of my film supply from my Ilford dealer.

Click to expand...

This may be likely. I still shoot a lot of Efke R25 in old folders with unprotected red windows but I haven't see that problem. I do try to protect the window from direct sun but it sounds as though you were doing the same.