Efke R100/PL100 questions

rwboyer · Nov 27, 2009

Just wanted a quick check with those of you that have use this film before. I have been searching for a cheap alternative to my regular Kodak sheet film in 8x10 and decided to try the Efke 100 - nothing has gone severely wrong with my limited testing so far but...

I wanted to check to see if this was "normal" for this film, It seems really really grainy - like grainier than TRI-X, etc, etc. I processed it in Pyrocat HD 1+1+100.

As long as your screen is about ~100 dpi this is about 40x (the larger version):

This is about 8x (the small version):

Just wondering what those of you more experienced with the Efke 100 think is up - if this is normal for this film in Pyrocat HD then I might just stick with my outrageously expensive Kodak.

RB

memorris · Nov 27, 2009

I tried the Efke 25 in 4X5 sheets because of a lens I have that has only e/5.6 and fastest shutter speed of 1/100. In order to shoot outdoors I needed a slower film. It also was very grainy when developed in Clayton F76 Plus. I showed the negatives and prints to someone local and he said it looks like the older emulsion films form the '60s. I was never quite pleased with the results and subsequently went back to TMax in bot 4X5 and 8X10. Something to be said for knowing the film, even is it is very expensive.

mopar_guy · Nov 27, 2009

I have also seen coarse grain in Efke PL 25/ D-76.

Dave

rwboyer · Nov 28, 2009

Thanks for the responses - I am still looking for comments from people that have shot the 100 but I guess both of you would extrapolate your experiences to this being normal?

RB

Zvonimir Ervacic · Nov 28, 2009

rwboyer said:
Thanks for the responses - I am still looking for comments from people that have shot the 100 but I guess both of you would extrapolate your experiences to this being normal?

RB

I regulary use Efke25, not so much Efke100 but I do. I would say it is normal for Efke100, grain and sixties look.

Pozdrav,
Zvonimir

Ian Grant · Nov 28, 2009

EFKE films are poorly hardened & prone to reticulation, in it's mildest form this causes grain clumping and so you need to be very tight on process temperatures.

Zvonimir, I'm just printing sme Foma shot in Croatia in the summer (Dubrovnik) Great to see photographers from the region.

Ian

rwboyer · Nov 28, 2009

Ian Grant said:
EFKE films are poorly hardened & prone to reticulation, in it's mildest form this causes grain clumping and so you need to be very tight on process temperatures.

Zvonimir, I'm just printing sme Foma shot in Croatia in the summer (Dubrovnik) Great to see photographers from the region.

Ian

This is after 2 tries and all of my temps are within 1 degree F so if it reticulation than this is unacceptable fragility where a 1 degree F causes the issue. It sure does not look like reticulation even at this high magnification.

RB

vdoak · Nov 28, 2009

about right

I've only been using Efke pl100 for a little over a year now. I am sure there are those out there with more experience with it. All the work I have done with PL100 is in Pyrocat HD at 1:1:100, at a careful 68f through out the process. Reticulation is a problem. I can confirm this with experience gained the hard way. To me your image looks about 'normal'. I attached a shot form my first shot with Efke. If I have all the settings right it should compare with your 1:8 example. Efke does have the look of 1970 vintage Plus-X (I have no first hand knowledge of film pre 70s ) This is to say pre dye layer and pre "T" grain films.

rwboyer · Nov 28, 2009

vdoak said:
I've only been using Efke pl100 for a little over a year now. I am sure there are those out there with more experience with it. All the work I have done with PL100 is in Pyrocat HD at 1:1:100, at a careful 68f through out the process. Reticulation is a problem. I can confirm this with experience gained the hard way. To me your image looks about 'normal'. I attached a shot form my first shot with Efke. If I have all the settings right it should compare with your 1:8 example. Efke does have the look of 1970 vintage Plus-X (I have no first hand knowledge of film pre 70s ) This is to say pre dye layer and pre "T" grain films.

Thanks a lot - what did your reticulated 100 look like and how did it happen. All of my temps are 70 and always within 1 degree F.

RB

vdoak · Nov 28, 2009

To me it looked like shattered safety glass. ie distinct lines between the grains/clumps, and the clumps were big. I did it with a darkroom blunder. My first rinse water after the developer was too hot by far! I did not keep the neg (pl100 4x5) now I wish I had, but you could tell easily it was reticulation. In my case one could see it with the naked eye.

mopar_guy · Nov 28, 2009

PL-25: Jeckyl or Hyde

I was just looking at the last batch of negatives that I processed. All were 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 PL 25 sheet film processed in a single batch. A few came out beautifully with a very nice tonality and some have coarse grain. The film may have been from 2 separate boxes of film. Exposed in a 2x3 Crown Graphic. I haven't got any of this printed yet.

Zvonimir Ervacic · Nov 28, 2009

rwboyer said:
This is after 2 tries and all of my temps are within 1 degree F so if it reticulation than this is unacceptable fragility where a 1 degree F causes the issue. It sure does not look like reticulation even at this high magnification.

RB

Try different exposure and development. I'm not expert but I notice that missing the right exp/dev might increase grain and have high impact on dynamic range (more than others film I use). The reason might also be something else (I'm not sure), I'm just guessing it might be exp/dev.

Zvonimir Ervacic · Nov 28, 2009

Ian Grant said:
EFKE films are poorly hardened & prone to reticulation, in it's mildest form this causes grain clumping and so you need to be very tight on process temperatures.

Zvonimir, I'm just printing sme Foma shot in Croatia in the summer (Dubrovnik) Great to see photographers from the region.

Ian

So far I know Efke don't have hardener in emulsion (coating). It is why it have to be handled very gently. Many people here and around the net reported all kind of film damages. Since I started using Efke films I believe I had all the problems people are tolking about (maybe even a few more) but after I started treating Efke film gently I rarely have any problems with the film. It include whole process, putting the film in camera and taking it out (out of direct expose to the sunlight), fill the developing tank (very gently, slowly), developing (gentle agitation, water stopbath, gentle agitation, gentle, gentle), drying in dust free environment (dust dry in emulsion and you can't get rid of it any more).

I notice in a last few years many UK tourists discovered Croatia as a great summer time destination. I hope you enjoyed and will visit Croatia again. I have few friends in Scotland and must say I'm in love with UK nature!

Fir noo,
Zvonimir

Andreas · Nov 28, 2009

I have shot a lot of KB100, the 35mm equivavalent to PL100. It sure is grainier than T-max 400, and a lot cheaper. I never tried Pyrocat. Mostly I have used Rodinal, which is no fine grain develloper. But the grain is distinct, and I like the look of it. If you don't like it, you should go for another film.
I have also tried a few rolls of KB25, also in Rodinal. I would say this is old fashioned slow film with super fine grain and high contrast. Much like Agfapan 25. If you have trouble with grain from this film, and with 4x5 negs, I can't imagine the reason. But my experience is mostly with 35mm. Perhaps sheet film emulsions are different. I tried a few shots on PL 100 9x12cm sheet film. Never thought about the grain. But I didn't make enlargements bigger than 30x40cm.

jwiebe47 · Nov 29, 2009

I used efke 25 extensively over the summer months this year, and i didn't find it grainy at all. Obviously its not efke 100, but i'm surprised to see such grain. I didn't use the developer you have, in fact i'm not familiar with it at all. But i did try to use a fine grain developer like rodinal. You may want to try that. You won't get high contrast necessarily, but i'm certain you'll achieve smaller grain.

Zathras · Nov 29, 2009

I wonder if processing at a lower temperature, say 65F/18C, a plain water stop and using a hardening fixer would help to reduce the grain clumping and reticulation problems that people seem to be experiencing with EFKE films.

mts · Nov 29, 2009

I found results similar to yours with Efke 100 in D-76 1:1 and also 1:2. This film does much better in Rodinal 1:50 and the combination gives nice even grain. I use a hardening fixer and an indicator stop bath, and process LF individually in trays with gentle agitation at 20C. Surprisingly Efke PL-50 gave grain similar to the PL-100. I was expecting to find finer grain but did not get that result. Have you tried D-23 with divided development? That might be worth a try too.

rwboyer · Nov 29, 2009

Zathras said:
I wonder if processing at a lower temperature, say 65F/18C, a plain water stop and using a hardening fixer would help to reduce the grain clumping and reticulation problems that people seem to be experiencing with EFKE films.

My process is the same for all films that I use:

Pyrocat 1+1+100
Water stop
Alkaline fixer

RB

rwboyer · Nov 29, 2009

mts said:
I found results similar to yours with Efke 100 in D-76 1:1 and also 1:2. This film does much better in Rodinal 1:50 and the combination gives nice even grain. I use a hardening fixer and an indicator stop bath, and process LF individually in trays with gentle agitation at 20C. Surprisingly Efke PL-50 gave grain similar to the PL-100. I was expecting to find finer grain but did not get that result. Have you tried D-23 with divided development? That might be worth a try too.

Surprising that Rodinal gave less apparent grain than D76 - curious.

RB

Ian Grant · Nov 29, 2009

Rodinal gives exceptionally fine grain with certain films, better than with D76, the APX100 or APX25 Rodinal combination is one case and some EFKE films are others.

For what it's worth EFKE films are not old technology like the thicker films of the 50's and60's (Forte films were the last of that type) but were a pioneering new thin layer technology at the time of their introduction.

Ian

Efke R100/PL100 questions

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