Efke IR 820 in 120, lets compare notes...

PKM-25 said:

This guy does some of the best IR work with this film I have ever seen. No contact info though..

http://theplasticlandscape.com/

and

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eye_of_wally/sets/72157600211354929/

Now how is he putting out all this great work and not getting stuffed by spots?

Click to expand...

Photo Shop?

I would not be too sure that you should not use this film. There can be a coating defect 5 feet long that affects a 42" wide master roll and as a result many 120 rolls are bad. OTOH, the streak can be 2" wide and 100 feet long. Another big lot of bad 120, but in terms of a 5000 ft 42" master roll, it is a tiny defect and finding defects in IR film is a pain!

A defect, or a rash of defects should not put you off and does not mean the end of the world. However, if it keeps up and if it truly is a defect, then there is a problem and should be a recall so to speak.

I can't tell what it is and I don't want to prejudge this situation.

PE

That's why I need to get ahold of another emulsion number. I have been dealing with Freestyle on this and they have been great, but I fear this is the only emulsion number they have until they rotate stock.

The other thing is that I am trying to use this film for serious fine art and commercial stuff, I can't afford to be a test dummy.

I am taking a break from it for a couple of days, I have work I have to get done.

Don't give up on it yet.....
In my case I had the result posted above, but 3 sheets later it was gone and I got this with an R72 @ EI 6, shot approx 1 hour before sunset during a Finnish summer evening

This batch of 4x5, Emulsion Number 710635 also came from Freestyle
So it seems to be like PE says

Try printing IR negatives as direct positives, that is by treating the negative as if it were a slide and do a pos-pos print. Or, while scanning, tell the scanner that the original is a positive.

The results may surprise you quite a bit. White sand, clear sky, black clouds and trees normal shades with white trunks and etc. Same thing with color IR processed as a negative in C-41, then scanned as a slide, not a negative.

PE

PMK,
I didn't mean to imply that EFKE IR can't be used on scenes with extreme brightness range, I guess I didn't say what I intended to say, which is, give the film more exposure and develop it for a shorter time. That works quite well with EFKE IR. As to whether you have defects in your sample, I don't know, but I haven't encountered that, just trying to say that I have had images that had what I would call spots that were way underexposed and I realized that the error was mine. Sorry to hear that some people seem to be having trouble with EFKE, I think this is the best IR film available, and I would have to say that I have also had no problems whatsoever with EFKE 25.
Good luck,
Doug Webb

Freestyle recommends that this film be exposed at ISO 25. This seems a bit high, I thought ISO 6 was more likely for IR film. I know that the Rollei 400 IR film is supposed to be rated at ISO 6 with R72 filter to get IR results. Also, could it be that Efke IR and Pyro don't go together?

Doug Webb said:

PMK,
I didn't mean to imply that EFKE IR can't be used on scenes with extreme brightness range, I guess I didn't say what I intended to say, which is, give the film more exposure and develop it for a shorter time. That works quite well with EFKE IR. As to whether you have defects in your sample, I don't know, but I haven't encountered that, just trying to say that I have had images that had what I would call spots that were way underexposed and I realized that the error was mine. Sorry to hear that some people seem to be having trouble with EFKE, I think this is the best IR film available, and I would have to say that I have also had no problems whatsoever with EFKE 25.
Good luck,
Doug Webb

Click to expand...

Ah, now that makes more sense, I'll give that a try.

Thanks!

I always process my 4*5 MACO IR film in PyrocatHD and have not seen problems related to the developer. I do see coating defects once and a while (clear spots on the neg, emulsion missing), and these obviously pop up in empty grey skies. And the emulsion is quite fragile, I guess the tanning of Pyro developers help here.

On the mentioned web side with examples of defect free images with Efke film (a couple of threads above), These images contain a lot of detail, and relative little sky, I think that possible coating defects are obscured by the details.

Best,

Cor

Andrew Moxom said:

Freestyle recommends that this film be exposed at ISO 25. This seems a bit high, I thought ISO 6 was more likely for IR film. I know that the Rollei 400 IR film is supposed to be rated at ISO 6 with R72 filter to get IR results. Also, could it be that Efke IR and Pyro don't go together?

Click to expand...

I had bad 120 rolls from batch number 710615 but I had no problems with 35mm film of the same batch number. I have new 120 stock with a number of 710525 so I hope that will be better.

PKM-25 said:

OK, I am starting to see a pattern associated with underexposure on Flicker:

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=IR+820

In the images of the woman in low light and a couple of the stereo ones, you can see the spots..

I am going to go out and give this some burly exposure in even light and then pre-soak it. I see other people getting great results from this film in dramatic light so I am still a bit skeptical...

Click to expand...

A bit late to this thread but those are my pics. Thanks for the kind words. I have now shot over 200 rolls of this film in medium format and have not had that issue. They have all come from Freestyle in several shipments over the past 18 months most have been the same lot numbers as yours.

I always presoak the film the following way.

1.)Fill tank with room temp water and let sit for 2-3 minutes or so
2.)Dump out and refill with room temp water and then dump out again. I do this 2-3 times until the water for the most part runs clear. This film has a very deep blue antihalation dye (as do all the Efke Films)

I use Diafine as my developer of choice 95% of the time. (yes with a presoak) The other 5% is done with 1:200 Rodinal with Stand Developing mainly just for something different.

I wrote a little FAQ about my experiences with the film here

http://theplasticlandscape.com/articles/efke_ir820.htm

and I wrote about my Diafine workflow here
Dead Link Removed

eye_of_wally said:

A bit late to this thread but those are my pics. Thanks for the kind words. I have now shot over 200 rolls of this film in medium format and have not had that issue. They have all come from Freestyle in several shipments over the past 18 months most have been the same lot numbers as yours.

I always presoak the film the following way.

1.)Fill tank with room temp water and let sit for 2-3 minutes or so
2.)Dump out and refill with room temp water and then dump out again. I do this 2-3 times until the water for the most part runs clear. This film has a very deep blue antihalation dye (as do all the Efke Films)

I use Diafine as my developer of choice 95% of the time. (yes with a presoak) The other 5% is done with 1:200 Rodinal with Stand Developing mainly just for something different.

I wrote a little FAQ about my experiences with the film here

http://theplasticlandscape.com/articles/efke_ir820.htm

and I wrote about my Diafine workflow here
Dead Link Removed

Click to expand...

Thanks very much. Very useful and interesting information.

"Also use plain water as a stop bath as the film does not respond well to acid stop baths."

What does stop bath do to IR820?

MrMushroomMan said:

"Also use plain water as a stop bath as the film does not respond well to acid stop baths."

What does stop bath do to IR820?

Click to expand...

from my experience the Efke emulsions are very sensitive to rapid changes and can/will break down if exposed to such things. That is why I always presoak the film. I also think if you go from a high PH developer to a low PH stop bath it somehow shocks the emulsion but if you use water a stop it goes from alkaline to neutral to acid.

Also I am pretty sure that some fixers are more acidic than others. I have always used the Arista Liquid Fixer that Freestyle sells (and is made for them by Clayton) because it is cheap and works well.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/16275-Arista-Liquid-Fixer-to-Make-6-Gallons

The MSD sheet rates it as ph of 5.3 I am not sure what it is once mixed with water, but perhaps other fixers that are too acidic or other developers that are more alkaline are the root cause of some of the issues that people seem to be having?

I can not stress enough how sensitive this film can be with rough handling, and swings in temps and swings in PH. If you are gentle with it it can be an awesome film, but for some it might be to finicky with handling

Although I'm pretty good at maintaining all my temps to 1 degree or less, can you describe any adverse effects in temperature variations between baths, washes etc?

Thanasis said:

Although I'm pretty good at maintaining all my temps to 1 degree or less, can you describe any adverse effects in temperature variations between baths, washes etc?

Click to expand...

a degree or two (or even 3 or 4) will not do anything, but larger swings can crack and/or make the emulsion lift/peel off.

The Efke films have much thicker emulsions than other more modern films, as such they curl more and can get damaged very easily

eye_of_wally said:

a degree or two (or even 3 or 4) will not do anything, but larger swings can crack and/or make the emulsion lift/peel off.

The Efke films have much thicker emulsions than other more modern films, as such they curl more and can get damaged very easily

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. I've got five rolls in the fridge (along with some Ilford SFX and Rollei IR) and with warmer weather (finally!!) on the way I'm looking forward to using these films. You're using Hoya R72 filter right?

Thanasis said:

You're using Hoya R72 filter right?

Click to expand...

yes, I use a Hoya R72