Efke 50

christian · Dec 15, 2005

Hi all

I have just joined APUG and I must say I am overly impressed by all the information and user knowledge. Its so refreshing to know I am not on my own when it comes to film photography.

To my question.

I have been shooting Delta 400 with Rodinal 1:50 on 6x6 format. All in all the quality has been quite good but I am now looking at a sharper combination.

Recently moved so have not had time to do much photography but have a couple of rolls of Efke 50 roll film stashed in the fridge. Now that I have some spare time over xmas I was thinking of getting out the bronica and shooting some landscapes.

I was wondering if anyone could provide some personal experience about shooting with this film and what combinations one would suggest for fine grain and good tonal range?

Hope someone can help.

Many thanks

Christian

Fotohuis · Dec 15, 2005

Efke and Rodinal 1+100 is not a bad combination. Better and even sharper and a very nice tonal range will be Efke and AM50 from Amaloco. It's a simmular type of developer as the Tetenal Blau (Blue) developer. AM50 is a further development of AM20, which is from 1936. The original receipture of Tetenal Blue will be also around that time period. All Efke films are single layer films and suitable for development in a Brenzcatechine type of developer.

The disadvantage of the Efke films are the slow speed and not all emulsions are always in the same quality range. Too bad, because like Foma (from the Czech Republic) has improved a lot since 10 years and their films are more and more reproducable for the last years.

About Efke: I am just comparing their Efke 25 film to the new Rollei Pan25 film and the Ilford PanF. Developers: AM74 (Amaloco, R.H.S. Rollei High Speed same soup) and the AM50. A lot of work to test them all on their sensiometric values and parameters.
My test equipment: Heiland TAS filmprocessor, Jobo 1510/1520, TBE-2, TRD-Z densitometer. Printing I am doing on a Dunco II 67 120 pro with Split Grade (TM) from Heiland. Favorit PE/RC paper: Variprof (Amaloco) an OEM product from Ilford. Simmulation MCP (Agfa) in combination with AM2002 Bromax paper developer. Correction on the split grade unit: +0,3F and +0,5G.
In combination with the AM6006 Extra MG developer from Amaloco, you have the same results as on original MG IV paper. No corrections needed when printing.

best regards,

Robert

christian · Dec 15, 2005

Hi Robert

Many thanks for your reply and informed response.

Unfortunately (for me) I am not as advanced in testing of films and developer combinations! hahah

But that said I will take your advice and try the Efke 50 with Alamoco, although its hard to get around these parts. Would you say the Tetenal Blue is of similar result? If so I will pick some up from the UK next week, as I am there for 3 days.

Its interesting you mention the Forma films, as this was going to be my next purchase.

As I have only been here for 2 months I am still trying to find my way around in terms of places to get chemicals and general dark room supplies. I think though that mail order is probably the best route for me right now, as the only shop in Brugge that does dark room related stuff only really stocks Ilford, eveything else seems to be digital.

Would you know of any good WEB based stores that would deliver this side of town?

Again many thanks and I will let you know the results of my labour

Christian

Dave Miller · Dec 15, 2005

Our EMMG site has a links page with some good online suppliers.
A good developer to try is Prescysol

I've used it to good effect.

jim appleyard · Dec 15, 2005

You can try here for a bit of info: http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Times/KB_R-50/kb_r-50.html

Not too much about your Efke 50, but you never know. The site has lots of other useful articles and links.

Welcome to APUG!

Fotohuis · Dec 15, 2005

Well, in Belgium (in fact for the BeNeLux) the whole Ilford organisation is re-organized, the same in France and Germany (Bon Image). The whole sales is taking over (1.1.2006) by "de Beukelaer" in Belgium, also the representative of Amaloco for Belgium and they will try to have a complete Ilford stock to deliver on time, in normal quantities the mentioned countries. Last year, it was hopeless here in the Netherlands with Ilford products.

The bad news is that again the prices are rising with about 20%.

A lot of dark room stuff is sold via the internet (webshop). We are also doing that for many years in Europe, when necessary, worldwide. We can send a reasonable amount of darkroom material to Belgium (zone 1, same like Germany) for Eur. 8,40 transport costs. Payment can be done on our int. IBAN and BIC account, without any costs within EU-countries. APUG has also a Dutch forum, also a lot of information on it.

Best regards,

Robert

avandesande · Dec 15, 2005

I don't know about the 50 speed film but there are a lot of guys out there shooting the 25 film and developing in rodinal. Might be worth it just sticking with what you know.

Fotohuis · Dec 15, 2005

a lot of guys out there shooting the 25 film and developing in rodinal. Might be worth it just sticking with what you know.

Depending on the format you're shooting, the results will be OK.
Efke 25 or 50 will be fine in Rodinal 1+100. On sheet film (4X5") or larger you won't see any differences (unless using a microscope) for Rodinal or AM50/Tetenal blue development, but if you are shooting on 35mm and are doing enlargements over 10-15X, the differences are huge.

AM50 is delivered in a box of three ampules, 20ml each and you can dilute to 1+29. The exposure of the film in combination with this developer is rather critical. AM50 is made on brenzcatechin (pyrocatechine) and sodium hydroxide base. It's working on a high pH. Use at least 8 ml concentrate/film 35mm or 120 rolfilm.

The same is valid for Rodinal at high dilutions: Officially 10ml/film, but tests have proved that about 7ml/film is the save minimum. Do not rotate your film with Rodinal. It's a typical inversion developer, use minimum agitation. Same is valid for developers like Pyro/PMK and Tanol (Moersch). MINIMUM agitation required. The edge sharpness is then maximized and your grain will go to a minimum level.

I whish you a lot of succes in your darkroom experiences.

best regards,

Robert

christian · Dec 16, 2005

WOW!

Couldnt have imagined so much information feedback!

Thanks very much guys for you help and info. I will try check out the links.

I may also stick to rodinal but I think I may shoot the 2 rolls on site and dev each one with diiffrent devs, say rodinal and Tetenal maybe.

I have to admit I have always used the liquid developers and never had a go at the powder variety so its all experiments this xmas!

I can see how prices over here are high. Even in the little photoshop that provides some dark room stuff is really expensive compared to the UK. They also dont have much variety when it comes to developers and papers.

Also late lastnight I read on a website about some guy using Perceptol to good results, any ideas? As I mentioned above, this is new ground for me so I would like to experiment as much as I can but I also dont have huge funds or vast amounts of time at the moment, hence my asking for experiences.

Robert: I will have a look at your site this evening, as there are some walls that need decorating before my girlfriend gets home!

I love decorating

Again many thanks to all.

Christian

Mark Layne · Dec 16, 2005

Fotohuis said:
Efke and Rodinal 1+100 is not a bad combination. Better and even sharper and a very nice tonal range will be Efke and AM50 from Amaloco. It's a simmular type of developer as the Tetenal Blau (Blue) developer. AM50 is a further development of AM20, which is from 1936. The original receipture of Tetenal Blue will be also around that time period. All Efke films are single layer films and suitable for development in a Brenzcatechine type of developer.

The disadvantage of the Efke films are the slow speed and not all emulsions are always in the same quality range. Too bad, because like Foma (from the Czech Republic) has improved a lot since 10 years and their films are more and more reproducable for the last years.

About Efke: I am just comparing their Efke 25 film to the new Rollei Pan25 film and the Ilford PanF. Developers: AM74 (Amaloco, R.H.S. Rollei High Speed same soup) and the AM50. A lot of work to test them all on their sensiometric values and parameters.
My test equipment: Heiland TAS filmprocessor, Jobo 1510/1520, TBE-2, TRD-Z densitometer. Printing I am doing on a Dunco II 67 120 pro with Split Grade (TM) from Heiland. Favorit PE/RC paper: Variprof (Amaloco) an OEM product from Ilford. Simmulation MCP (Agfa) in combination with AM2002 Bromax paper developer. Correction on the split grade unit: +0,3F and +0,5G.
In combination with the AM6006 Extra MG developer from Amaloco, you have the same results as on original MG IV paper. No corrections needed when printing.

best regards,

Robert

Who is Rollei Pan 25 made by?

Mark

noseoil · Dec 16, 2005

Christian, if you are going to do landscapes, try a yellow filter for the skies. Because of the tonal rendering of sky-blue (if there are any blue skies this time of year) the filter will be needed to bring in better contrast with sky & clouds. Clear sky will look a bit washed out without it.

Another developer to try is Pyrocat, if you end up doing an internet purchase from abroad. Not sure about its availability in europe. 1:1:150 and minimal agitation will give nice edges and tonality. tim

christian · Dec 16, 2005

Hi

Well, as far as (I) know Rollie R3 film is a joint venture between Rollie and Maco which will give an ISO rating from 25-6400.

Please anyone correct me if I am mislead.

Christian

christian · Dec 16, 2005

Hi noseoil

Thank you for the tip. I will try and purchase a yellow filter for my bronica while in London. Any paticular grade?

Hmm many choices in terms of developer. I guess I will just have to get one and try.

Many thanks all!

Christian

Fotohuis · Dec 16, 2005

If you want to try a "staining" developer, you can use the Tanol from Wolfgang Moersch: 1+1+100. Even better than PMK or Pyrocat.

In the Rollei B&W film project more companies are involved: Rollei (D), Maco (D), Retina (D), Forte (H), Amaloco (NL), CG-Hamburg (D), Gevaert (B) and maybe some others.

The R3 is in fact a T.S.F. film and the I.R.-400, an infra red industrial film. Also the Pan25 is a new emulsion. The 35mm version of the Retro100/400 is existing APX emulsion, like the name RETRO already is suggesting. If Rollei is smart they are going to use another emulsion for their 120 rolfilm version which seems to be assembled now, because APX is not available anymore.

Foma 100/400 is a possibility or maybe FP4 and HP5 from Ilford, or a very improved version of Lucky 100/400 (I hardly can imagine), we will see what is in the box in the beginning of next year............

Robert

fwp · Dec 16, 2005

christian said:
Hi all

I have just joined APUG and I must say I am overly impressed by all the information and user knowledge. Its so refreshing to know I am not on my own when it comes to film photography.

To my question.

I have been shooting Delta 400 with Rodinal 1:50 on 6x6 format. All in all the quality has been quite good but I am now looking at a sharper combination.

Recently moved so have not had time to do much photography but have a couple of rolls of Efke 50 roll film stashed in the fridge. Now that I have some spare time over xmas I was thinking of getting out the bronica and shooting some landscapes.

I was wondering if anyone could provide some personal experience about shooting with this film and what combinations one would suggest for fine grain and good tonal range?

Hope someone can help.

Many thanks

Christian

I've been using Efke-25 for the last few months and will switch to it as on a full time basis instead of Tmax. For reasons I don't remember completely I decided to give tfx-2 from photographers formulary a try. My "normal" development time is 20 minutes at 73F with 5 secs of aggitation every 3min. The results are stunning and have to be seen to be believed!!

christian · Dec 16, 2005

Robert:
Many thanks again. You have so much information in your head I am suprised you sleep! hahah

FWP:
What developer do you use?

Many thanks

Christian

Fotohuis · Dec 16, 2005

I am suprised you sleep!

Indeed, not too much in the last weeks.......

Fortunately it are short days so easy time for real dark in the darkroom.

My favorite combo's:

Fomapan T200, SPUR HRX-2
Fomapan 100, AM74 1+9 or Rodinal 1+50
R3 at E.I. 200 till 800, AM74 1+7
R3 at E.I. 50 or 100, CG512 1+4
PAN25, I tested AM74 1+9, do not know yet
Retro 100, 35mm, certainly Rodinal 1+50
IR-400, I tested AM74 1+9, do not know yet
Fuji Acros 100, SPUR SLD
Fuji Acros 100, AM50
Delta 100/400, SPUR HRX-2

Favorite films for "staining" developers, fine grain and colorized, use alkaline fix or at least neutral fix for maximum staining effect:
Tanol 1+1+100, FP4+
Tanol 1+1+100, Fuji Acros 100

Tested worst combination so far:
Tanol and R3
ID11/D76 and R3 (how is it possible Rollei/Maco can recommend in their data sheet!)
Rodinal and Foma T200
Rodinal and Fomapan400

AM74 and TriX
AM74 and HP5+ (unless you want regular big grain)

Worst film I ever tried: Forte
..... and their photopapers can be so good..........

It's a pity the quality of Efke is going up and down, because this type of film, specially on low speed (E.I. 25) can be very usefull on a 35mm rangefinder camera.
Finest grain so far with Rollei Pan25 and the Fuji Acros 100 together with CG512 but using this special ultra fine grain developer is more complicated due to it's 24 degrees C. development temperature.
Last tests with UP25/Efke 25 and AM50 are going in the same direction. 40x50 cm from a 35mm negative, great! , no problem at all!

By the way, I am shooting on 35mm camera's and medium format 6X4,5cm.

If you go up in larger format, everything is much less critiqual.

best regards and have a nice week end!

Robert

Flotsam · Dec 16, 2005

First, Welcome Christian.
You have found the best (and probably the only ) site for film photography.

I use Efke R50 120 almost exclusively for my studio still lifes. I process it in D-76 1:1 and more recently, Xtol. I love the fine grain and full tonal range especially with metallic objects. The "Cups and Grapes" picture in my personal gallery is an example of that and there are a few other R50 photographs in there. It has very good reciprocity characteristics and it has a lower Red sensitivity than most other films but as I said, I really like the look of the film so I can't complain about it.

Recently I shot a roll of 35mm Adox 50 which is identical to Efke KB50 and was very happy with the results for general outdoor pictorials. It had good shadow detail at the rated ISO 50 and even though I will back down a bit on the developing time on my next roll, the highlights held without blocking. I have four more rolls to play with but I'm thinking that KB50 could replace the more finicky Pan F as my slow 35mm film.

k_jupiter · Dec 16, 2005

Lots of things to play with but I wouldn't get too involved with Rodinal if I were you. Since the supply has dried up here in the States, I suspect it might be that way over in Europe also.

That said, one of my favorite things to do here in sunny. sunny, contrasty California is shoot Panf at about 25 then develop 1+200 Rodinal for 90 minutes stand. Might not work in the Benelux though. If you are going with subtle grays (or greys for that matter) a good pyro type developer might help you bring out all the separations you see and have such a hard time transcribing to film. My favorite choice is W2D2+ from Photographer Formulary for small tank roll film processing but I have also had good luck with pyrocat in rotating tubes for sheet film. Prepare to be amazed at what fine grain structure as well as tonal graduations appear when you print (especially on graded papers).

Best of luck. I'll be visiting your section of the world next month for a couple of weeks of cold and wet weather. I plan on bringing my C220, a tripod, and lots of J&C 200.

tim in san jose

hortense · Dec 16, 2005

Prescysol

Dave Miller said:
A good developer to try is Prescysol [/URL]
I've used it to good effect.

Sounds like a good developer. Is this developer chemically toxic like Pyro (gloves?)?

One-shot developer? ... A stock solution will keep how long?

christian · Dec 17, 2005

Hi guys

This has to be the best forum in the world! So many people wanting to share thier personal experiences and ideas.

I have so much to go on that I think I am going to have to write a list! hahah

k_jupiter: Indeed over here (at the moment) can seem grey but with the correct film and dev combination, you can have superb pictures. In my opinion Brugge is a wonderful place at any time of the year, even if we have rain. Not sure wether you have been before but its pretty much like a biscuit tin town (like the old pictures) and every street you turn there is something interesting. At the moment we have an ice rink in the market square, which I will venture on this weekend. :S Is it Belgium you are comming to visit?

Flotsam: many thanks! I will try to look at your gallery pics. I think I have to subscribe but I dont think thats a problem! Will do that soon as I can. Need to sort out paypal.

Robert: You have obviously tested a fair few! I may also try the ROllie R3. I was actually going to get some rolls when it was being sold in my UK suppliers store but I read an article in a magazine (i forget which one but may have been Black & White Photography) and he/she said it was a tricky film to get right in terms of development. As I am not advanced in my developing skills I decided to give it a miss until I felt more confident.

I may give it a go though as the advice yourself and everyone has provided here has given me the push to experiment for myself!

Large thanks to everyone

Christian

Fotohuis · Dec 17, 2005

I may also try the ROLLEI R3. I was actually going to get some rolls when it was being sold in my UK suppliers store but I read an article in a magazine (i forget which one but may have been Black & White Photography) and he/she said it was a tricky film to get right in terms of development.

It's not a tricky film, it's only selective in it's developers: Use R.H.S. / AM74 or R.L.S. / CG512 (and for the last one you need temp control! 24 degrees C.)
Xtol is the next acceptable alternative.
D76/ID11 worthless, like I told you already.
It's one of the easierst films (polyester base) with n.c. (non curling layer) to get in a developer reel yourself. Best time for me: within 8 seconds!

It's a cubic crystal film with three layers: iso50-iso150 and iso 500. Do not use it above E.I. 1600 whatever Rollei says about this. Best results on E.I. 200 till E.I. 800 special on low light situations, Brugge and it's lighting will be beautifull for this film, due to the extended near I.R. range (till 710-730nm).

Do not forget the reciproke factor above 1 S time exposure.
We have it on stock: 120 rolfilm and 135-36, best prices in Europe, same for it's developer AM74/RHS.
Testkits also available: 35mm and 120 rolfilm: See *NIEUWS/NEWS* on our NL-website!

Robert

Mark Layne · Dec 17, 2005

Back to the question no one seems to want to answer. Who makes Rollei 25?
Mark

Flotsam · Dec 17, 2005

Christian,
You can also see the "Cups and Grapes" at my site at Dead Link Removed under the studio tab, I think it is on the second page of thumbnails. Sadly I don't include the technical data on that site as I do on APUG.

christian · Dec 17, 2005

Mark:

Read back through the thread, Robert has answerd your question.

Flotsam:

Have had a look. Very nice stuff you have there. I noticed there were some faint markings in the background, forgive me if I am being dumb but is this deliberate, emulsion, printing? I know the web does not do them justice.

many thanks again.

Christian

Efke 50

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