Efke 25 - suggestions on development

SteveH · Mar 16, 2006

All,
Im about to go out and try some Ekfe 25 for the first time. For developers, I have either HC110 or I was happy to find that my local shop is now stocking Ilford's re-released Perceptol, so I picked it up. I haven't been able to find times/suggestions for development with this film, for either developers. The only thing that I did find was for HC110(h) for 7mins in a JOBO. I use tray development.
I feel lost without my Rodinal....2 more weeks.....2 more weeks.....

Thanks !

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 16, 2006

I have tried Efke 25 in a few different developers (pyro, rodi, fa-1027, ilford). I always liked Rodinal best, so my advice is to order some of the R09 from J&C.
(The stairway image in my personal gallery is efke 25 and rodinal 1+100 if you want to know what it looks like).

- Thom

jim appleyard · Mar 16, 2006

I haven't used any Efke yet, but I still have some Agfa 25 and used to shoot a bit of Pan-X when it was around. The beauty of these kinds of films is that they are virtually grainless and you really don't need a grain-reducing dev like Perceptol or HC-110.

I like my slow films in a soup like Rodinal, Beutler or pyro. I like to bring out the sharpness of these films. Don't worry about the grain that isn't there. Just my $.02.

avandesande · Mar 16, 2006

Get your hands on some rodinal. I do 1/100 semi stand and the results are fantastic.
When you load the stuff on the reels use gloves, if you get any oils on the film you will have low density fingerprints after you develop. Also make sure to use a hardening fixer, I use kodak rapid fix and mix up the harderner as the directions indicate.
Finally us distilled water until after the hardening fix. After rinsing with tap let it soak overnight in distilled water. I hang up the negatives to dry after I take my morning shower, and then spray them with distilled water plus photo-flo.

Trust me, these recommendations come after many ruined images.

Ole · Mar 16, 2006

If you haven't yet, try Neofin. Or Beutler's, as Jim Appleyard suggested. Nefin was made for these films when they were first introduced, and still gives the best results IMO.

fwp · Mar 16, 2006

I've been using tfx-2 from photographers formulary to develop the efke-25 that I've been using. I process the film using semi-stand development. When I first fill the combiplan I've noticed it takes 30sec. I start the timer when I start pouring the developer and after I fill the tank I agitate until I'm into the development for a total of 1min. after that I agitate 5sec every three minutes for a total time of 20min. When I started the film testing the coldest water temp I could get from the tap was 73F so I used that as a development temp.

Gerald Koch · Mar 16, 2006

Take the previous advice and use one of the acutance developers like Neofin Blue or the Beutler formula. You do not want to use Perceptol with this film! Why mush up the nice sharp grain.

SteveH · Mar 16, 2006

Ok, thanks for the help. Well, I figured as much - I never have what I need. Im going to experiment with HC110 abit and see what I can come up with. I did order Rodinal, but freestyle won't have it until the 27th, so I doubt I'll see it much before the 5th of April.

SteveH · Mar 16, 2006

One more question:
Can I use a red safelight to develop by inspection with this film ?

Ole · Mar 16, 2006

Yes - with care. Following all the normal rules for DBI, a red light will be "safer" with this film than green light.

But you can still fog the film if you overdo it.

jim appleyard · Mar 16, 2006

SteveH said:
Ok, Im going to experiment with HC110 abit and see what I can come up with.QUOTE]

HC-110 is capable of fine images (actually, most of the image is, IMO, made from lighting and composition. How many of us can tell what dev you used?), but I think slow films like this are better souped in acutance devs.

A friend used to have a Corvette. It ran ok on regular gas, but ran better on premium. Give the HC-110 a shot, you might like it.

SteveH · Mar 16, 2006

Ok, so here is my plan:
I just developed a sheet in HC110(e) @ 20c for 8:30. I used my safelight to develop by inspection, and I - naturally - over did it abit and slightly fogged the film (I can tell by the unexposed areas where the film holder is). However, I am getting 'somewhere'. I will try it again later on in the evening.

Thanks for the help,

SteveH · Mar 17, 2006

Results:
I don't want to say much yet, as I don't believe I can comment fully until these negs are printed. However, I got some pretty smooth looking negs. I was afraid that this film would be contrasty - per its reputation....but it looks pretty good.
My dev. time might be a tad much, as some of these look thick...But then again the scene was a high-contrast shot. I need to do a couple more shots to test, and perhaps reduce development slightly dependant upon conditions. This is what I did:

Efke 25 @ 25asa
HC110 dilute 'e' @ 20c
1min presoak
8:30, agitation every 30s
water stop for 2min.
Hardening fix.

On a side note, the anti-haylon dye that gets deposited in the pre-soak looks very apx like...Makes me wonder abit about some of the myths I have heard...
As for grain - obviously it is there. Looks alot like 125tpx when its done in HC110. Rodinal would be far sharper (my fomapan 100 in rodinal are obviously sharper when viewing through an 8x loupe). But that is to be expected. I do have a couple of uses for it in my mind (macro flower shots perhaps ?).

Hope someone else gives it a shot,

Gerald Koch · Mar 17, 2006

Unless you have experience in developing by inspection forget it. Sounds easy but it's not.

BTW, most film manufacturers discourage the use of a presoak.

Mike-D · Mar 17, 2006

I found that D-76 at 1:3 dilution worked pretty well with this film.

Mike D

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 17, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
Unless you have experience in developing by inspection forget it. Sounds easy but it's not.

BTW, most film manufacturers discourage the use of a presoak.

However, Efke/Adox do recommend a water presoak for their films:

"For best results Efke/ADOX films should be prewet in water for 1 minute."

See: http://www.jandcphoto.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=2

Gerald Koch · Mar 17, 2006

Tom Hoskinson said:
However, Efke/Adox do recommend a water presoak for their films:

"For best results Efke/ADOX films should be prewet in water for 1 minute."

See: http://www.jandcphoto.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=2

I would feel better about this advice if it were coming directly from Efke. However this does not seem to be the case. The instructions appear to be a compilation made by J&C. I haven't found anything so far from Efke directly regarding presoaking.

SPUR specifically warns about presoaking Ekfe when using their developers. So does Kodak, Agfa, and Ilford about theirs.

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 17, 2006

Gerald, you said "SPUR specifically warns about presoaking Ekfe when using their developers. So does Kodak, Agfa, and Ilford about theirs."

With the film developers that I use, I presoak my film (both LF and rollfilm) before development and I have been doing so for years with excellent results. The Films I currently use are Efke PL 100, Efke 50, Efke 25 and Kodak TMAX 400 (TMY). My primary film developer is Pyrocat-HD. However, I also use PC-TEA and 510-Pyro as well as Agfa Rodinal, FX-2 and Ansco 130 diluted 20:1.

I don't use Spur film developer - but if I tested it, I would include some presoak vs non-presoak tests.

SteveH · Mar 17, 2006

I conducted the pre-soak of the film due to the recommendation from J&C (the one that Mr. Hoskinson found). I normally do not pre-soak with any other film. However, I did read elsewhere on the net that this swells the emulsion abit (?) and allows for better development.
The reason why Agfa, Ilford, et. al., do NOT recommend a presoak is because they have incorporated a 'water-wetting' agent into the antihalation dye (or so I was told by Agfa) - which negates the reason for a pre-soak. Does Efke ?
Regardless of the pre-soak or not, I just wanted to post some base-line tests, as there seem to be nothing about this film/developer combo on the 'net (or APUG).

Also, as I stated in the first post, I am using tray development. Times with other methods will obviously differ. I do recall that there was a time listed for Efke 25 in HC110(b) on Digital Truth however...

noseoil · Mar 18, 2006

Steve, the presoak with efke films (soft emulsion, as you will no doubt find) helps to moderate developer uptake in the film. It allows the developer to infiltrate the film at an even rate and aids in smooth development. tim

SteveH · Mar 18, 2006

Thank you for the proper explanation. I appreciate your input.
On a side note - a friend of mine was kind enough to donate a small bottle of rodinal to this cause. So hopefully on Monday I will be able to post side-by-side comparisons of grain, etc.

noseoil said:
Steve, the presoak with efke films (soft emulsion, as you will no doubt find) helps to moderate developer uptake in the film. It allows the developer to infiltrate the film at an even rate and aids in smooth development. tim

Efke 25 - suggestions on development

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Efke 25 - suggestions on development

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