Efke 127 Coating defect?

rusty71 · Aug 9, 2007

Last week I ran a roll of fresh Efke 100 film through a recently acquired yashica 44 TLR. Developed in Rodinal for 16 minutes at 1:100 dilution. All shots turned out well except for this one. There is a really odd oval shaped clear area dead center on the negative. It looks like emulsion did not coat that area as I can see film base. I've emailed Freestyle Photo in LA to let them know of the problem.
Am I correct in determining this to be a film coating defect? I've never seen anything quite like this in 25 years of developing my own B&W.

Please see this link:
http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~rrosener//127Efke.jpg

Film did not stick to itself on the reel. That would just be undeveloped, this is like a black hole! :confused:

jim appleyard · Aug 9, 2007

It could be that the film DID stick to itself on the reel. As you said, this would be an undeveloped area, then fixed to remove the silver that never got developed, thus leaving a black hole.

Or, it could be a defect. I really like Efke 25, but I've had scratches, pieces of emulsion missing, etc. If they could just up the QC a bit!

rusty71 · Aug 9, 2007

Got off the phone with Eric from Freestyle just a little while ago. They definitely stand behind everything they sell! His knowledge of the black and white film business is impressive. After learning about the Fotokemika operations I must say I'm impressed by this small company's dedication to produce unique film.

Difficult to say what happened to the 127 film. But I will certainly buy more in the near future. Just gotta fabricate a good negative carrier!

Shawn Dougherty · Aug 9, 2007

Efke is a great film but the QC is terrible. There's really no way around it. I've seen coating problems on boxes I've bought and boxes bought by 3 other LF photographers. I'd use it if only I could trust it...

Shawn

Ian Grant · Aug 9, 2007

I've been using EFKE films for over 30 years.

In that time I've never suffered a problem with a coating fault, but these are single layer emulsions so a fault is more consequential, or in plain English more of a problem. And to be fair I don't print every image

There have been a lot of posts about QC, mostly a year to 6 months ago, just remember the scenario in the market place. Agfa had collapsed and finally gone, Kodak had dropped all B&W papers, Ilford had just emerging from receivership, Forte were in turmoil owned by asst strippers.

So who knows maybe someone at EFKE said just get product out and sold, get us a cashflow.

But as of yet a factory fault hasn't ruined a neg or caused even the slightest problem on any of their films I've used.

Now put another hat on and think I work in a small and lesser known photo plant. Kodak's given up on B&W paper and also seems on the point of ditching all silver based photography, Ilford's in trouble. Agfa's gone, Forte's dead in the water.

That was the reality.

Ian

thebanana · Aug 9, 2007

It looks like the frame was touching something, but it's puzzling, because if it was touching another part of the film you would have 2 ruined frames. What equipment did you use to develop it?

rusty71 · Aug 9, 2007

thebanana said:
It looks like the frame was touching something, but it's puzzling, because if it was touching another part of the film you would have 2 ruined frames. What equipment did you use to develop it?

I loaded the film in a plastic Photax tank. The plastic reels have the little metal ball bearings. I'm a diehard stainless steel reel user. Never blown a frame on those in 25 years...(Since Freshman in college).
Now I will admit one thing. The 127 Efke has one heck of a curl. It was tough getting it on the reel. But I took my time and checked very carefully that it was loaded properly. That was in the dark of course!
So I cannot say for certain 100% that it was not my fault. Only 99%

I've used efke before, so I'm aware of the film's quirks. That said I really love their emulsions and will keep buying them. They may soon be the only game in town for Infrared Film.... This post was not meant to pick on Fotokemika. Hey, they actually make infrared in 127! How cool is that?? This was just honestly a weird occurence I've not seen before and if it's something I did wrong then I want to correct it. If it's the odd emulsion defect then all I want is another roll of replacement film. Freestyle will honor that. So I'm a happy customer.

jim appleyard · Aug 10, 2007

thebanana said:
It looks like the frame was touching something, but it's puzzling, because if it was touching another part of the film you would have 2 ruined frames. What equipment did you use to develop it?

No, two frames would not be ruined. The emulsion side of one frame (the one with the blob) would be touching the base side of the other, thus having no effect on it.

jim appleyard · Aug 10, 2007

rusty71 said:
I loaded the film in a plastic Photax tank. The plastic reels have the little metal ball bearings. I'm a diehard stainless steel reel user. Never blown a frame on those in 25 years...(Since Freshman in college).
Now I will admit one thing. The 127 Efke has one heck of a curl. It was tough getting it on the reel. But I took my time and checked very carefully that it was loaded properly. That was in the dark of course!
QUOTE]

No, No, NO! Always turn the light on to check to see if your film is properly loaded!

My high school photo teacher once had another student who always had black negs. No matter what, he had black negs. After awhile the teacher asked if he was turning on the light in the darkroom as the student was having trouble loading the film on SS reels. The reply was, "yes, but only for a second!"

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · Aug 10, 2007

Actually, by my experience when you roll the film wrong and it runs together the fixer doesn't get to it either, so it leaves a white hole (emulsion left on the film, no light can pass through), rather than a black one like that. Granted I've only been making these 'educational' mistakes for a year, but it does seems odd.

Efke 25 is one of my favorite films too, and luckily I haven't had any problems. Even managed to push it to 100 in Xtol with good results (Always remember to check what you rated your film at after you load it, kids).

Uncle Goose · Aug 10, 2007

I've been using a few dozen of 120 film from Efke and never had the problems some descibed (like scratches, differences in batches and so on). I stopped using it because I don't know the times to develop them in Ilfosol S, so I changed towards Ilford. If I ever know the correct times I might buy some more.

rusty71 · Aug 10, 2007

No, No, NO! Always turn the light on to check to see if your film is properly loaded!

My high school photo teacher once had another student who always had black negs. No matter what, he had black negs. After awhile the teacher asked if he was turning on the light in the darkroom as the student was having trouble loading the film on SS reels. The reply was, "yes, but only for a second!"[/QUOTE]

Yep, gotta remember that one Jim! Actually one year I was teaching Photo I. A middle aged lady was taking the class...not too bright no matter what age she was. Anyway, she showed up in the classroom, and announced she'd bought a 100 sheet box of fiber paper. Her prints always came out black, no matter what settings we used. I finally asked her where she bought the paper. " A local camera shop, but I don't trust them. So as soon as I got the paper in my car, I opened it up to count and make sure there were 100 sheets in the box." Naturally her car was NOT a fully equipped darkroom!

Chris Breitenstein · Aug 10, 2007

I shot Efke for a while and noticed that their coatings were rather uneven and the emulsion is really delicate. I never ran into a problem like this. Most of my problems had to do with heavy banding. A smooth even tone, such as a sky or evenly lit wall would come out with high and low values in waves. the only reason I stuck with it was because it pushes incredibly well. A scene with 1 or 2 stops of separation could be stretched to where it can be printed on grade two. I am currently using Ilford FP4 (8x10) and its okay, It dosn't push well at all. A negative developed for 12 and 45 minutes are almost the same.

Efke has quality control problems and when they get fixed the film we be exceptional.

Yours;

Chris Breitenstein · Aug 10, 2007

rusty71 said:
No, No, NO! Always turn the light on to check to see if your film is properly loaded!

My high school photo teacher once had another student who always had black negs. No matter what, he had black negs. After awhile the teacher asked if he was turning on the light in the darkroom as the student was having trouble loading the film on SS reels. The reply was, "yes, but only for a second!"

Yep, gotta remember that one Jim! Actually one year I was teaching Photo I. A middle aged lady was taking the class...not too bright no matter what age she was. Anyway, she showed up in the classroom, and announced she'd bought a 100 sheet box of fiber paper. Her prints always came out black, no matter what settings we used. I finally asked her where she bought the paper. " A local camera shop, but I don't trust them. So as soon as I got the paper in my car, I opened it up to count and make sure there were 100 sheets in the box." Naturally her car was NOT a fully equipped darkroom![/QUOTE]

I heard a story like this except it was two ladies sharing a box of paper who divided it up in the car.

jim appleyard · Aug 10, 2007

I had s tudent once who kept asking me why his prints had nothing on them. Until I actually got around to his enlarger (11 other students with their own troubles!) to see what he was doing, I kept telling him to add more light; "Light turn things dark." He kept oepning up a stop and adding more time on the timer but still nothing.

Turns out he was taking his 35mm contact sheet, cutting it into strips and then putting the strips of paper, not the negs, into the neg carrier!!!

They are out there! However, we all must learn at some point.

jim appleyard · Aug 10, 2007

Fleath said:
Actually, by my experience when you roll the film wrong and it runs together the fixer doesn't get to it either, so it leaves a white hole (emulsion left on the film, no light can pass through), rather than a black one like that. QUOTE]

True! However, I've been known to do the developing, fix for the 1st minute, drain, open the tank and pull of some film off the reel to see what I've done (or haven't done! ) and this may just jostle the film enough to then let in the fix for the rest of the required time.

Thin?

Efke 127 Coating defect?

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