Edwal FG7 Dilutions

P C Headland · Feb 1, 2007

Hi

I've used this developer (I got two bottles really cheap) a couple of times using the 1+15 dilution for Neopan 400, and really liked the results.

I'm wondering if anyone out there has used this developer at higher dilutions, and what the effects on the film and development time were compared to the official dilutions. Also, is there any difference in "look" if using 1+3 over the 1+15 dilution?

Thanks

Paul

Lee Shively · Feb 1, 2007

I'm real fuzzy on this. I haven't used FG7 in many years. I believe it is also usable at 1:31 dilutions for compensation results. If I remember correctly, it was recommended by Edwal to use this dilution with a sodium sulfite solution and process for the same time as the 1:15 dilution. Can't help you on the look comparison due to the previously mentioned blurry memory.

gainer · Feb 1, 2007

Edwal used to provide what they called a "Speed Cup" for measuring out about a tablespoon of sulfite for use with FG-7. There are so many ways to develop B&W film, I can't remember them all. You can use a mixture of Tylenol, Vitamin C and laundry detergent. I used a mixture of 1/4 teaspoon of phenidone, 4 tablespoons of sodium sulfite (anhydrous) and a "bunch" of hydroquinone in a quart of water for some years before I found out about the miracle of Vitamin C. A "bunch" is greater than 20 grams. The idea was that the phenidone could activate 40 times its weight of hydroquinone. More hydroquinone would increase the capacity of the developer with little change of activity. Phenidone is not much affected by the bromide build-up, so I figured I had a self-replenishing developer. It seemed to work. I would reuse the same quart until it got so grungy looking that I began to worry. After 8 or 10 rolls I made a new batch whether the old was dead or not. Some once-in-a-lifetime photos of guest artists with the Norfolk Symphony, now the Virginia Symphony, were made with that concoction. This was in the period when I was the principal oboist, 1967-1975.

grahamp · Feb 1, 2007

If you increase dilution beyond 1:15 you may need to increase your volume per film to make sure you have enough active ingredients.

aldevo · Feb 1, 2007

As Gainer stated, FG7 1:3 is the "Newspaper Special". It is foremost designed to reduce development time. I expect that lots of developers published times towards a similar end for the days when newspapers had both a morning and evening edition...

FG7 at 1:3 is somewhat grainier than the 1:15 dilution and somewhat less sharp. I only tried it a couple times because I did not like the results.

FG7 used to be my developer of choice. I tried 1:3, 1:15, and 1:15 w/ 9% Sodium Sulfite Solution. I preferred the 1:15 (no sulfite) concoction.

Earl Dunbar · Feb 1, 2007

IIRC (from the mists of time long past), my experimentation with anything more dilute than 1:15 was a disaster. If it was workable, there was some secret unknown to me at the time.

P C Headland · Feb 2, 2007

Thanks for the info guys.

I'll stick to the 1+15, since that does seem to work well, at least with the Neopan 400. 1+3 gives dev times that are way too short for my liking.

aldevo · Feb 2, 2007

P C,

Yes, that's the other problem with 1:3. The development times are so short that any inconsistency in "pour in" and "pour out" times for your developer will make it very hard to control contrast. This is worsened a bit further if you use a water stop.

Personally, I prefer development times of at least 8 minutes.

dynachrome · Feb 2, 2007

You don't say whether you are using the FG-7 1:15 with plain water or with 9% sodium sulfite solution. I found FG-7 too grainy at 1:15 with plain water when using faster films. With traditional medium speed films the need for the sulfite is a matter of taste. You get a good image either way but you will see the extra grain with the plain water. My favorite film/developer combination used to be Panatomic-X at an E.I. of 64 with FG-7 1:15 with plain water. That combination had nice tonality and you had to make a pretty large print before you would see any grain. I used it in 35mm and 6X6 formats. I did experiment with FG-7 @ 1:31 with the old Kodak 5069 (High Contrast Copy Film) for continuous tone work. When it is used correctly, Neopan 400 is an excellent fast film.

gainer · Feb 2, 2007

aldevo said:
P C,

Yes, that's the other problem with 1:3. The development times are so short that any inconsistency in "pour in" and "pour out" times for your developer will make it very hard to control contrast. This is worsened a bit further if you use a water stop.

Personally, I prefer development times of at least 8 minutes.

The best way to fix that problem is to put the developer in the tank, then the reel with the film. At the end, if you are doing one-shot, pour in an ounce of TF4 concentrate for each 8 ounces of developer and agitate like h-e double hockey sticks. If necessary, pour out some developer before you add the fixer.

Flotsam · Feb 2, 2007

FG7 was my standard developer for many years. I diluted it 1:15 with 9% Sodium Sulfite for fine grain and with plain water for a bit higher accutance with slower films.

Richard Jepsen · Feb 3, 2007

I have used FG-7, 1:15, plain water. It reminds me of XTOL 1:3. The mid tones flatten slightly and it is sharper than D-76. I found FG-7 like other liquid developers has shorter keeping properties than developers mixed from powder. XTOL at higher dilutions than 1:1 would be a good substitute.

aldevo · Feb 3, 2007

Richard Jepsen said:
I have used FG-7, 1:15, plain water. It reminds me of XTOL 1:3. The mid tones flatten slightly and it is sharper than D-76. I found FG-7 like other liquid developers has shorter keeping properties than developers mixed from powder. XTOL at higher dilutions than 1:1 would be a good substitute.

A very good point about shelf-life. I found that an opened container of FG-7 lasts about 4-6 months. Transferring the contents to smaller amber glass bottles and using the glass marble means of keeping the bottles full did not seem to increase shelf life.

I very much recommend performing clip tests when using this developer as the color changes from light pink to dark brown very soon after opening and gives no visible evidence of failure.

Ultimately, I stopped using this developer because I found PC-TEA did everything a little bit better (except for film speed which seems about the same) and PC-TEA has excellent keeping properties, and is a known formula that is easy to mix.

Paterson Aculux-2 (which I understand will become available again, shortly) is also a similar developer.

P C Headland · Feb 4, 2007

Aldevo

Actually I am just awaiting some phenidone so I can mix up a batch of PC-TEA for myself and a friend. I'm looking forward to trying it out, and its supposed keeping qualities are one of the things I really like.

What films and times do you use when developing in PC-TEA?

Edwal FG7 Dilutions

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