Just to continue to report: I've also developed some APX-100 in Edwal 10 as a stand developer. 425 ml solution at 70 degrees F, initial agitation 20 secs, agitate at the 25 minute mark, pour out at the one hour mark and then normal processing to conclusion. Nice tonality, good sharpness -- I like it!
....I prefer both 10 and 12 as replenished developers ....
Message #21 had some guidelines (look at what you do for D-76), though you'll probably have to play with it a bit yourself. My copy of "Modern Developing Methods for Prints and Fine Grain Negatives" (Edwal / Lowe) doesn't mention replenishing for Edwal 10.
+1 !!I wish df cardwell was still around here. Tom Hoskinson , too.
Recently I gathered all the information about Edwal 10 that I could find. After that I performed tests with carefully replenished Edwal 10. My experience was that Edwal 10 offers no advantages for me.Reviving a 12 year old thread as I am looking for info on how to use Edwal 10 as a replenished developer. Anyone any info?
Recently I gathered all the information about Edwal 10 that I could find. After that I performed tests with carefully replenished Edwal 10. My experience was that Edwal 10 offers no advantages for me.
This is repeated over and over in books but in one test I did the chemicals were not very good at chemistry and PPD showed finer grain:In many ways, this shouldn't be surprising - you've essentially repeated the outcomes that Henn & Crabtree of Kodak Research Labs found when they investigated various 'fine grain' developers like Lowe's concoctions (and others) in the 1940s & found that D-23 was about as effective as any of them (at the pH's they operated at), D-25 offered measurably finer granularity, and that Microdol offered finer granularity & faster development times - and that all 3 didn't need some of the nastier chemistry like PPD that some recipes (though not Edwal 10) used.
In many ways, this shouldn't be surprising - you've essentially repeated the outcomes that Henn & Crabtree of Kodak Research Labs found when they investigated various 'fine grain' developers like Lowe's concoctions (and others) in the 1940s & found that D-23 was about as effective as any of them (at the pH's they operated at) ...
Kodak employees, or Kodak affiliated researchers, concluding that Kodak products are as good as the ones from the competition ... did you really expect something else?
Nevertheless, do you happen to know when they conducted their research? The 1947 recipe of Edwal 10 looks a lot like D-23 albeit with less metol than the version that is listed on this site and various other forums.
effort to research and take a product to market unless some pretty ruthless tests showed it was provably better - this is where Kodak and others pulled ahead of the amateurish developer-tasters, who didn't have electron microscopes and microdensitometers, let alone emulsion research divisions to investigate the grain/ speed/ sharpness relationship. That Ilford, with a significant basic science research group at the time, ended up essentially making the same product as Microdol/ Microdol-X in the form of Perceptol, says far more about how accurate Kodak's pinpointing of the useful mechanism was.
Unfortunately, a good developer should not lose speed to gain its desired result of finer grain or better sharpness. One can only hope that the final developer optimzes Grain, Sharpness and Speed to the max possible. With PPDs this could be quite rewarding to the adventuresome. This is especially true of their use in B&W processing.
Unfortunately, much of the real data on PPDs is not in any text. This includes Mees, Mees and James and Haist among others.
Are you familiar with the expression "Cancel Culture"?The reality is that Kodak etc wouldn't spend the time & effort to research and take a product to market unless some pretty ruthless tests showed it was provably better - this is where Kodak and others pulled ahead of the amateurish developer-tasters, who didn't have electron microscopes and microdensitometers, let alone emulsion research divisions to investigate the grain/ speed/ sharpness relationship. That Ilford, with a significant basic science research group at the time, ended up essentially making the same product as Microdol/ Microdol-X in the form of Perceptol, says far more about how accurate Kodak's pinpointing of the useful mechanism was. It's terribly easy to want to make folk heros out of some kind of supposedly heroic amateur chemists slowly poisoning themselves with PPD in their garden sheds rather than teams of white-coated researchers in large corporate entities coming up with elegantly simple and much less toxic solutions - especially because it doesn't fit easily with some of the popular (and often fairly well founded) narratives about mid-20th century corporate behaviour with regards to chemicals and their effects on the end user and the environment. Ironically, the use of PPD in hair dye (and other dyes) until very recently is actually a pretty clear illustration of that behaviour.
The other problem with people playing around with many developers today is that the 'tests' they do seem to lack even the most basic sensitometric controls & comparisons - and often rely on consumer grade scanners with questionable MTF and noise characteristics, which they then proceed to sharpen the life out of.
Interestingly, PE who was a Kodak researcher himself was of the following opinion.
If you are looking for nice tonality then Edwal 10 is a good developer.
....
Unfortunately I don't remember offhand the replenishment rate of Edwal 10. I have 3 oz./film written in notes but I don't remember if I used that or not. It has been about five years since I've used it. I'd recommend giving it a go.
Patrick Robert, do you remember which version of Edwal 10 you used at the time? The original formula, the formula listed in 'Modern Developing Techniques' by Edwal differs from the formula that floats around on this site. For the sake of completeness and ease of referencing I will list them both.
Photrio’s version
distilled water _________ 750ml
Metol ___________________ 5g
Sodium Sulfite___________ 70g
Glycin __________________ 15g
Borax ___________________ 10g
distilled water to make _ 1000ml
official Edwal 1947 version
distilled water _________ 900ml
Metol ___________________ 5g
Sodium Sulfite __________ 100g
Glycin __________________ 5g
Borax ___________________ 10g
distilled water to make _ 1000ml
Hope that helps.
Thank you!
Did you ever experienced a sudden drop in activity? I did and I never found out what the cause of that was. I suspected it was in the formula I'm using (I mixed the Photrio's version) or that is was due to the grayish Metol I used. I bought fresh Metol from a reputable source. It has the off-white color, so that's good. I will mix a fresh batch of Edwal 10 and see how it keeps, or does not keep, its activity.
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