Economics of Digital Camera Repair

Dismayed · Aug 4, 2021

I really hate to add to the growing pile of electronics waste, but sometimes there seems to be no other option. My lightly used Fujifilm X-E2S no longer starts up. So I sent it to Fuji for repair, but they replied that it is uneconomic to repair. They didn't report what the problem is, so perhaps they have a policy not to repair cameras 5 years old, or older.

It's never been wet, and it's never been dropped. So it would be nice to get it fixed, but that isn't an option. They offered me a refurbed X-E3 for a bit over $400, but I passed on that. So digital cameras that are outside of warranty coverage are disposable. At least that isn't true of my Nikon rangefinders from the 1950's.

4season · Aug 4, 2021

That's unfortunate, but don't overlook the possibility of selling your camera "parts/as-is" because it may be worth $100+ to someone.

Last year I looked into the possibility of Sony authorized service and found that one particular shop had a basic $300+ fee which you must agree to pay before even sending the camera in. If I ever need to replace the internal battery in my old RX100, I'll probably just tackle the job myself, because that camera has a sub-$200 market value. Speaking of batteries, if you got DIY abilities, it might be worth a look to see if the internal battery in your own camera has died: Worst-case scenario for digital cameras is where you either store cameras with main battery removed or discharged as that will likely hasten the demise of the internal battery.

Normally, a dead internal battery won't render the camera useless so much as cause the clock and some settings to reset every time you swap main batteries, but that may not always be the case.

MattKing · Aug 4, 2021

The reason that repair is uneconomical is as much related to how inexpensive a new replacement is as it is to the cost of the repair itself.
To change that, things probably need to be designed and built to be repairable, which would likely make them more expensive to buy, and may also make them larger and heavier.

Robert Maxey · Aug 4, 2021

MattKing said:
The reason that repair is uneconomical is as much related to how inexpensive a new replacement is as it is to the cost of the repair itself.
To change that, things probably need to be designed and built to be repairable, which would likely make them more expensive to buy, and may also make them larger and heavier.

And lets get the Right to Repair laws enacted. One might want to repair something, but a lack of parts prevents it. Some technology is literally beyond the abilities of most to fix because complex design and proprietary assembly methods prevent it.

When I was building Palm Pilots, first versions were assembled with screws and some people could repair them. When the Palm VI arrived, it was heat sealed and impossible for most people to repair. Parts for the wireless Palm could not be bought on the open marketplace. Just like our credit card modems and NIC cards.

Thank goodness i can fix my abacus. All i need is to replace a few beads from time to time and I am good to go..

Bob

Robert Maxey · Aug 4, 2021

Dismayed said:
I really hate to add to the growing pile of electronics waste, but sometimes there seems to be no other option. My lightly used Fujifilm X-E2S no longer starts up. So I sent it to Fuji for repair, but they replied that it is uneconomic to repair. They didn't report what the problem is, so perhaps they have a policy not to repair cameras 5 years old, or older.

It might be that parts are no longer available. This can happen these days. Some of the products we manufactured had custom chips that we simply did not stock after a few years. Printed Circuit boards get redesigned and old parts wont work, so new parts are ordered and stocked.

We eventually ran out of parts and ways to test the device.

I think the need for every conceivable feature under the sun forces complex manufacturing and that often means these products cannot be repaired.

What i wonder about are the uber costly digital cameras. Can the sensors be upgraded? I do not know, so what about it readers? When i buy a pair of Hasselblad H6D-400c 400 something megapixel Multi Shot medium format DSLR, at some $45,000.00 each, can I upgrade the sensors in this not really 400 MP camera?

Bob

mshchem · Aug 4, 2021

Whenever I buy something that is "electronicalated" I figure the death watch is started. Wait for the weird low volume electric cars to go poof.
I have a 22 year old Nikon Coolpix 990, I bought it used for $300. It takes AA batteries and Compact Flash cards. I have the original card, 16 MB .

All it takes is one little thing and it's over.

wiltw · Aug 4, 2021

With a body-only MSRP at $700, one can readily understand the assessment 'uneconomical to repair'...if something like a failure of a single component on the main circuit were to occur, techs 50 years ago could replacet the failed component. Today, the circuit may involve multiple layers in the circuit so replacement is not readily feasilble, and SOP is to reduce the whole darn main circuit.

I have a Canon 5D(c) and its main circuit failed. An independent shop could replace the main circuit for $300 (inclusive of labor) even though Canon stopped service and parts support. Spending that was acceptable to me, as used 5Dn was not economically feasible, even if considering the used market...'replacement' cost 5-7X what repair cost.

4season · Aug 4, 2021

Robert Maxey said:
What i wonder about are the uber costly digital cameras. Can the sensors be upgraded? I do not know, so what about it readers? When i buy a pair of Hasselblad H6D-400c 400 something megapixel Multi Shot medium format DSLR, at some $45,000.00 each, can I upgrade the sensors in this not really 400 MP camera?

Most cameras can be upgraded to the latest spec: Sell the old camera and apply the proceeds to the new one. Money-wise, it's probably cheaper doing it that way than having someone dismantle your old camera and retrofit it.

Down Under · Aug 4, 2021

Sadly, almost everything electronic is now 'UUTF' - Unable/Uneconomic To Fix, the code my shop in Melbourne wrote on the receipt when they recently returned a working but unreliable Nikon D700 I bought cheaply at a deceased estate sale, and wanted repaired for various (to me minor) malfunctions. As my techo put it, used Nikon DSLRs are available so cheaply on Ebay, it isn't worth the time, effort and bother they have to put into it to get it working for who knows how long. He also added, by returning it they were doing me a favor...

So yes, as another poster suggested, I'll be selling that D700 as 'FPO' - For Parts Only - on Ebay one of these days, when I get around to listing it.

In 2019 I bought a second D700 which I still use, mostly due to its low price, the original Nikon battery pack it came with, and its low shutter count (1200 actuations). While playing with it at home, my partner removed the card and then put it back in wrongly, which damaged the reader. That seemingly small stuff-up cost me A$370 - I opted to have the repair done as D700s are renowned for their long working lives (I have one bought new in 2009 with 200,000+ actuations now on its milage counter) so I coughed up the cash. The camera has worked flawlessly since. So it was worth it to me.

Most repair shops here have boxes and boxes of old film and digital cameras sent in for repair and then abandoned by their owners when the quote was received. According to my repair man, owners of old Leica and Nikon SLRs are prepared to pay to get their babies working again but nobody else - it's just how camera economics work in our digieverything era.

I wonder how many once wonderful cameras, lenses and other photo equipment end up in charity shops (not many, I reckon, going by the very few I see in my forays into these places) or as landfill (probably where most old gear goes to rest eternally) due to the high cost of repair.

Sadly, it's how we live now. We may not like it, but I don't see the situation changing in the future.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 4, 2021

Dismayed said:
I really hate to add to the growing pile of electronics waste, but sometimes there seems to be no other option. My lightly used Fujifilm X-E2S no longer starts up. So I sent it to Fuji for repair, but they replied that it is uneconomic to repair. They didn't report what the problem is, so perhaps they have a policy not to repair cameras 5 years old, or older.

It's never been wet, and it's never been dropped. So it would be nice to get it fixed, but that isn't an option. They offered me a refurbed X-E3 for a bit over $400, but I passed on that. So digital cameras that are outside of warranty coverage are disposable. At least that isn't true of my Nikon rangefinders from the 1950's.

I never deal with FujiNoFilm service. It is very bad they are not telling what is wrong and not offering repairs. Ricoh service is next to non existing where I'm as well.
But.
Leica Camera AG only stopped service of M9 cameras sensors in 2020 or so. More than ten years run, And they still have some parts available for repairs.
Canon DSLRs are repaired well after warranty.

Bad service from FujiNoFilm could be due to their constant flow of too many cameras. Some of them are even outsourced, like XF10 which lasted in production very short. Due to this they have way to many components which might become unavailable too quick.

I choose brands which professionals choose now. One of choice criteria as service and parts availability. I see use of Canon, Nikon and Panasonic by professionals, businesses. But I never seen FujiNoFilm in professional use.

Dismayed · Aug 4, 2021

MattKing said:
The reason that repair is uneconomical is as much related to how inexpensive a new replacement is as it is to the cost of the repair itself.
To change that, things probably need to be designed and built to be repairable, which would likely make them more expensive to buy, and may also make them larger and heavier.

I can't agree with you. Smart engineering can result in better products that are reasonably priced, serviceable, stronger, and lighter. Autos today last far longer than the cars from my childhood before extensive repairs are needed.

Dismayed · Aug 4, 2021

wiltw said:
With a body-only MSRP at $700, one can readily understand the assessment 'uneconomical to repair'...if something like a failure of a single component on the main circuit were to occur, techs 50 years ago could replacet the failed component. Today, the circuit may involve multiple layers in the circuit so replacement is not readily feasilble, and SOP is to reduce the whole darn main circuit.

I have a Canon 5D(c) and its main circuit failed. An independent shop could replace the main circuit for $300 (inclusive of labor) even though Canon stopped service and parts support. Spending that was acceptable to me, as used 5Dn was not economically feasible, even if considering the used market...'replacement' cost 5-7X what repair cost.

I wish Fuji would tell me what's wrong with it. Or at least provide a list of possibilities that led them to conclude the camera was uneconomical to repair. It could be something as simple as a loose connection that needs to be re-soldered.

4season · Aug 4, 2021

Dismayed said:
I wish Fuji would tell me what's wrong with it. Or at least provide a list of possibilities that led them to conclude the camera was uneconomical to repair. It could be something as simple as a loose connection that needs to be re-soldered.

Replacing the internal battery is one repair that you might conceivably be able to perform (soldering usually required). I don't know about cameras, but some computers won't boot if their clock batteries are dead. In the late film era, Fuji used to pull some not-nice stunts with batteries, like soldering them into place and hiding them. Not just on compact cameras like the TW3, but also the pro-grade GX680 film backs.

removed account4 · Aug 4, 2021

Dismayed said:
I really hate to add to the growing pile of electronics waste, but sometimes there seems to be no other option. My lightly used Fujifilm X-E2S no longer starts up. So I sent it to Fuji for repair, but they replied that it is uneconomic to repair. They didn't report what the problem is, so perhaps they have a policy not to repair cameras 5 years old, or older.

It's never been wet, and it's never been dropped. So it would be nice to get it fixed, but that isn't an option. They offered me a refurbed X-E3 for a bit over $400, but I passed on that. So digital cameras that are outside of warranty coverage are disposable. At least that isn't true of my Nikon rangefinders from the 1950's.

I get a second opinion…. Midstatecamerarepair does excellent work.. I’d contact them …

MattKing · Aug 5, 2021

Dismayed said:
I can't agree with you. Smart engineering can result in better products that are reasonably priced, serviceable, stronger, and lighter. Autos today last far longer than the cars from my childhood before extensive repairs are needed.

I don't disagree entirely.
But autos really are designed now not to be easily and cheaply repairable. The approach is much more to make important components last for an extended period of time, after which the automobile can either be replaced, or undergo an expensive and extensive overhaul.
I think, for example, of the spark plugs in my car. They are expected to last 150,000 km, but after that the engine essentially needs to be pulled out to replace them. And the plugs themselves are quite expensive.
In older autos/trucks, the spark plugs were accessible, but were designed to be replaced regularly.
We have friends who owned an automobile repair business. They explained that one of the reasons that almost all of the independent auto repair businesses have disappeared from the marketplace is that the equipment required to analyze all the modern vehicles was only practical if one leased it, and the cost of the annual lease, including updates and support, was in the order of $100,000.00 CDN per year.
Any business providing even a nominal level of service for more than one brand of auto needs to have access to that type of equipment, plus staff trained in its use.
It sort of makes that $10.00 USD per month for Photoshop look reasonable, doesn't it?!

beemermark · Aug 5, 2021

It's just not electronics & digital cameras. I have a gas powered lawn trimmer less than 4 years old. I'm a pretty good mechanic but I didn't want to mess with it so I took it to mom & pops repair shop. They told me to throw it away and buy a new one. So I took it home, took it apart (no big deal), and the rather common part I needed was almost as much I paid for the trimmer originally. The repair shop was correct. The whole supply chain is gear to obsolescence and replacement. The cost chain of providing replacement parts is too high to supply parts. As a side note auto and motorcycle shop time is $175 an hour. So if you think a camera technician is just as skilled 2 hours to repair a camera is $350 before parts.

wiltw · Aug 5, 2021

beemermark said:
It's just not electronics & digital cameras. I have a gas powered lawn trimmer less than 4 years old. I'm a pretty good mechanic but I didn't want to mess with it so I took it to mom & pops repair shop. They told me to throw it away and buy a new one. So I took it home, took it apart (no big deal), and the rather common part I needed was almost as much I paid for the trimmer originally. The repair shop was correct. The whole supply chain is gear to obsolescence and replacement. The cost chain of providing replacement parts is too high to supply parts. As a side note auto and motorcycle shop time is $175 an hour. So if you think a camera technician is just as skilled 2 hours to repair a camera is $350 before parts.

My version of this story:
3.5 year old clothes washer stops filling with any hot water. Trusted repairman assesses part and labor is $300 to fix a $450 washing machine that was a horrible eco washer that used too little water to wash anything properly. We ordered a new Speed Queen, which lasts longer and washes better..

guangong · Aug 5, 2021

I just assume that a digital camera is a one-way manufacture throw away instrument that can not be repaired. Cheaper to manufacture and, having a relatively short user life, provide a potential market for more advanced, more expensive models. I have the original Olympus Pen digital which I use when needed. My wife bought a digital Nikon that died immediately after warranty expired. That, and ephemeral nature of digital capture, are the reasons I stick to film. My 1936 Leica could possibly go on forever...no batteries and computer (brain) easily replaced by a new owner.
Not being a Luddite, I do take advantage of computer in conjunction with film for much of my work.
One other point, some folks are capable of very good digital work using iPhone and iPad...no camera needed. I used to scan documents and send as email...now I just snap pic with phone and send as phone message. Apparently resolution is fantastic.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 5, 2021

Sorry for OP, but it just typical doom and gloom.

We have FujiFilm camera made in earlier 2K. It works. Actually, we had mid of nineties digital cameras and they worked and been placed on recycle recently while still working.
In fact all of the digital cameras at our household works. Most of them are 10+ YO and never needed repair or repair was done.

One lemon FujjFilm camera and one unknown history of use and storage D700 (discontinued in 2012) with multiple failures (of course nobody in clear mind would touch it for repairs). Some Nikon camera not working after warranty.
This is it.
Do you know Fred Herzog got lemon M3? He got rid of it. I have old M4-2 which needs crazy expensive repairs.
250 USD CLA charge which "they charge no matter what". O'h wait, if I actually think, camera needs disassemble and reassemble. Wow... Just to see what is wrong with it. How different it is from disassemble, reassemble of digital cameras? The key word is "think". Read at LUF how many crappy M-A Leica Camera AG sells these days. And how long you have to wait for it seems last dude standing on Earth to get you all mechanical F working again? How it cost?
And who is going to fix mid past century Leicas ten years from now, if old ones are getting next to none due to natural cause and here is no young ones who are even willing to do camera repairs. Think is the key word again. Film camera repairs are not self-sustainable as the low cost to customers business. Just no difference from digital. Except some digital brands which are dealing with professional market. Film is not professional market for decades now.

So, we are even now. Film cameras are just as bad as digital.

Robert Maxey · Aug 5, 2021

MattKing said:
The reason that repair is uneconomical is as much related to how inexpensive a new replacement is as it is to the cost of the repair itself.
To change that, things probably need to be designed and built to be repairable, which would likely make them more expensive to buy, and may also make them larger and heavier.

Some products we manufactured simply cannot be repaired by most local shops due to the microprocessor design. No leads to solder. It took a rather costly BGA repair system to change components. Yet the new processors made a better product.

I am not sure what the answer is. We wont likely go back to a purely mechanical system devoid of parts we can replace. The public wants too much out of their purchase. Like a toaster that is WiFi connected. Do we really need that?

Bob

4season · Aug 5, 2021

For what it's worth, someone found a solution to a similar problem with Fujifilm's X20 compact camera, which was traced to a blown surface mount fuse:
https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/505099/Refuses+to+turn+on
If that's the case here, we're talking about a 30-cent part measuring 1.6 mm long. Who knows why it blew in the first place, but sometimes repeated thermal stress is enough.

Dismayed · Aug 5, 2021

jnantz said:
I get a second opinion…. Midstatecamerarepair does excellent work.. I’d contact them …

I'll give them a try. They are even in the same region of the country.

I really hate adding to landfills. That's why my mid-2010 mac pro is still in service. Apple no longer supports the hardware, so no more OS updates. So I converted it to a Windows machine. Who knows - maybe I'll convert my X-E2S to a flower pot.

Economics of Digital Camera Repair

Dismayed

4season

MattKing

Moderator

Robert Maxey

Robert Maxey

mshchem

wiltw

4season

Down Under

Ko.Fe.

Dismayed

Dismayed

4season

removed account4

MattKing

Moderator

beemermark

wiltw

guangong

Ko.Fe.

Robert Maxey

4season

Dismayed

Economics of Digital Camera Repair

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency