ECN2 Dry Chemicals/Mix and Store/Questions

[newcan1]

I am thinking of pre-mixing and storing the pre-mixed dry chemicals for ECN-2 useage. The formula I use isn't quite the exact Kodak formula; I would leave out AF2000 from the developer and use Calgon as a substitute for the Kodak anti-cal #4 in the developer. Stop bath would be sodium bisulfate. I would use the Potassium ferricyanide form of bleach. Sodium Thiosulfate/bisulfite/sufite for fixer.

The official formulae can be found by googling Eastman ECN-2 Module 7. They start at page 7-27.(I have substituted sod for pot salts and vice versa depending on what is easiest to obtain).

My question is whether, in each case, the dry chemicals for each process can be premixed and stored (long term) premixed?

1. Prebath would be borax/sodium sulfate/sodium hydroxide.
2. (i get to developer at the end) - stop is just one chemical - sodium bisulfate.
3. Ferri bleach is just Pot Ferricyanide and Pot Bromide.
4. Fix would be Sod. Thiosulfate, sod. sulfite and sod. metabisufite.
5. I don't know what to use for final rinse.
6. Developer may be more complicated and may need multiple parts (if indeed other steps don't also). I am wondering if the calgon and pot bromide should be a part A, sulfite/CD3 should be part B, and carbonate/bicarbonate should be part C.

Any thoughts? Would any other steps need to be kept in multiple parts? I am not a chemist so (6) above is entirely guesswork.

Comments welcome!

 

[koraks]

What's the benefit from storing dry mixes? I contemplated the idea myself, but decided against it as I see no advantages. What I do is make stock solutions for e.g. the developer (leave out the CD3 and store dry separately); the bleach and fix are somewhat different stories due their longevity (bleach; replenish once in a while) or because a concentrate is already available (fix, I use C41 fixer).

Keep in mind that your sodium thiosulfate fixer will be quite slow.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The fix may not be good enough without Ammonium ion. The C41 final rinse should be OK.

The developer may need the exact chemistry. IDK for sure.

Make sure that the pH values are right in all cases.

PE

 

[Rudeofus]

Different sequestering agents provide different levels of buffering, therefore I'd be careful with substitutions. This posting claims that Anti-Cal #4 is easy to obtain in the USA.

About breaking developer into powder packages: If you mix CD-3 with Sodium Sulfite, then the CD-3 will suffer from Sulfite alkalinity more than it will benefit from its (in powder form inexistent) Oxygen scavenging power. At the same time there is no need to keep Dequest 2006 separate from alkali and Bromide separate from anything. I would therefore mix Carbonate/Bicarbonate, Sulfite, Dequest 2006 and Bromide into one package, and keep the CD-3 separate. CD-3 is expensive, why premix it if it also works for E-6 and RA-4 ?

It may also be worth asking Formulary whether they can supply you with AF-2000 or the essential ingredient.

 

[newcan1]

Different sequestering agents provide different levels of buffering, therefore I'd be careful with substitutions. This posting claims that Anti-Cal #4 is easy to obtain in the USA.

I have always used 2g/L sodium hexametaphosphate instead of anti-cal#4 and have had good results. I looked for Dequest 2006 on the Formulary site and it is not listed, but they do sell "anti cal #4" although only in liquid form.

As for AF 2000, I have tons of it, I was just thinking of pre-mixing dry chemicals. I have frankly had better results using tiny amounts of benzotriazole than AF-2000. Of course, my assessment of results is anecdotal and not scientific.

 

[Tumbles]

If you look at the MSDS of Photographer Formulary's Anti-Calcium #4, it say's that it's Kodak Anti-Calcium #4.

 

[Rudeofus]

Since this appears to have caused confusion: Dequest 2006 is a roughly 40% aqueous solution of AMTP-Na5. For whatever reason this appears to be above top secret, MSDS and product sheets won't mention it. This is the only reference I have found which spells this out in the product content description.

Since Kodak's MSDS for their Anti-Cal #4 product lists very similar concentrations (35-40%), Kodak's Anti-Cal #4 is probably identical to what is normally sold as Dequest 2006.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I saw an ECN-2 kit not long ago; I thought I knew where, just spent some time checking. Can't find it.

OTOH, I fully understand the joy of DIY chemistry.

 

[bd3]

I saw an ECN-2 kit not long ago; I thought I knew where, just spent some time checking. Can't find it.

OTOH, I fully understand the joy of DIY chemistry.

Might this have been the place? https://www.qwdlab.com/store/ecn-2-powder-kit

 

[newcan1]

Might this have been the place? https://www.qwdlab.com/store/ecn-2-powder-kit

$75 for a 1 liter kit? Wow...

And they say it's made to Kodak specs. I am not sure how you sell a dry kit that meets such specs, given that AF 2000 is a liquid.

 

[lantau]

$75 for a 1 liter kit? Wow...

And they say it's made to Kodak specs. I am not sure how you sell a dry kit that meets such specs, given that AF 2000 is a liquid.

AF2000 is a solution of a solid compound. There is an article in the resources.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Or, back to C-41. It works for me.