ECN-2 at lower temperature in Jobo CPE3 and ECN-2 Push

Radost

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Hi,
I feel my jobo can not keep 106.1F tempreture.
Anybody process at lower temp?
Also I would like to hear some real world pushing experiences..
 

koraks

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Radost said:
Anybody process at lower temp?
Click to expand...

Nope, but no doubt it'll work OK. Just give it a go and perhaps use the temperature compensation of Rollei Digibase C41 as a starting point. I once made a curve based on their development times for a few temperatures (see Rollei instructions):

The dots are the times I took from the Digibase instructions. The curve is an exponential curve that shows a pretty good fit for these times. At some point I had this chart taped to a wall in my darkroom.

Radost said:
Also I would like to hear some real world pushing experiences..
Click to expand...

A few weeks ago I pushed Vision3 250D to E.I. 800, development time 5m30s at 41C. This printed fine onto RA4 paper. Contrast was a bit harsher than normal, shadows of course have a tendency to block up a little earlier, but I didn't run into any real problems with this one test roll. Color balance was noticeably different than how I normally handle this film, but nothing very weird and no problematic crossover that I noticed. I wouldn't hesitate doing this again 'in a pinch' if I needed an EI800 film for whatever reason.

But...
Radost said:
I feel my jobo can not keep 106.1F tempreture.
Click to expand...
'feel', or 'know'? And how bad is the problem, really? Can't you just do fly-by temperature control: start at a slightly higher temperature and allow the temperature to drop to below the target as development ends? As long as the average temperature is around the mark, you'd be OK. Also, don't fuss too much about temperature control. It's not *that* critical. Really, I wouldn't worry about it. Your Jobo probably does plenty fine for this purpose.
 

brbo

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And here is also what Kodak says you can expect when pushing/pulling ECN-2.
 

lamerko

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Regarding temperature, see Kodak charts - H-24, Module 8, page 8-8. You can expect more color crossover than when changing the development time. But it probably won't be a critical thing if the temperature deviation isn't too big.
For push/pull - in general, the same things as for the C-41 process are valid. For more drama - a partial bleach bypass can be applied
 

Sonynolta User

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A cheap sous vide stick from Amazon or such will provide a nice digital control, and a temp energy boost for your Jobo
I have a longer Jobo - CPA2, so it fits fine in one of the bottle holes.
 
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Radost

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halfaman said:
It should.

My old Jobo CPE2 can maintain 104F for sure, it would be very disappointing that such expensive and modern machine like CPE3 can't.
Click to expand...

It is strange. It is hard to maintain 106.1. I have to warm the developer separate and even if I poor it at 106.1 it comes out 103f after development. The jobo tank is more than touching the water and the water is around 106.5
 

koraks

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The part of the tank that sits outside the water bath may still cool off.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. If the temperature drop is 3F, just set the Jobo to 107.5 or 108.
 
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Radost

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koraks said:
The part of the tank that sits outside the water bath may still cool off.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. If the temperature drop is 3F, just set the Jobo to 107.5 or 108.
Click to expand...

It goes to 107 maxx
 
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Radost

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koraks said:
Then set it to 107 and don't lose any sleep over the whole thing.
Click to expand...

I am still getting a good negative. It’s just my mental issues wanting to be perfect.
 

koraks

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I understand. For some, running a few miles a few times a week helps. Others swear by a good glass of wine a day. I'd look in those kinds of directions!
 
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Radost

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Running is bad for your joints.
Wine helps. But I think a divorce will be best
 

halfaman

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Radost said:
It is strange. It is hard to maintain 106.1. I have to warm the developer separate and even if I poor it at 106.1 it comes out 103f after development. The jobo tank is more than touching the water and the water is around 106.5
Click to expand...

Ok. So you are talking about the tank, not the water bath.

There is always a temperature drop within the tank, even presoaking inside the tank with tempered water. Seems that the bath does not compensate totally the heat exchange with the enviroment.

Nevertheless, I think it is a small change to be significant. In color it is more important to be consistant than precise. Not so important that you loose a bit of heat but to loose always the same ammount.
 

LomoSnap

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I don't know why Jobo's latest machines have a maximum temperature setting limited to 40 degrees, including the CPE3 and CPP3.
I have used CPE2 which heated up to 41.1 degrees very well to develop ECN2 film.
 

Steven Lee

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Radost said:
Hi,
I feel my jobo can not keep 106.1F tempreture.
Anybody process at lower temp?
Click to expand...

JOBO temperature control sucks anyway and I don't use it. I heat my chemicals in an external bucket using a sous vide + high precision thermometer to control temp within 0.2C.

Radost said:
Also I would like to hear some real world pushing experiences..
Click to expand...

Kodak documentation is pretty clear: pushing/pulling is not possible without color shifts, so I never bothered. Even with B&W pushing is utterly pointless unless you were forced to under-exposed due to a lack of light. Otherwise controlling contrast digitally after scanning is vastly superior.
 
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Radost

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Pushing is a normal with ECN-2 films.
 

koraks

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Steven Lee said:
Kodak documentation is pretty clear: pushing/pulling is not possible without color shifts, so I never bothered.
Click to expand...

It's perfectly feasible and yields perfectly fine prints, even when printed optically. I do this all the time since I *always* overdevelop my ECN2 film - which isn't intended to be printed onto RA4 paper to begin with!

A color shift isn't problematic. Color crossover can be an issue if it goes beyond what you're willing to accept. The (heavily) pushed Vision3 250D (E.I. 800) yielded fine prints without apparent crossover.

PS this is from that roll I mentioned:



Scans from 20x30cm optical enlargements on Fuji DPII
 
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