ECN-2 and C-41 image color differences

kb3lms · Mar 13, 2012

Have you seen this posting:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

It gives a DIY formula for ECN-2 developer. Last I checked you could get CD-3 at Artcraft:

http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/products/products-page/general-chemistry/a-m/

Not sure how that works from Singapore, though.

It's on my list to try after some of my current projects have run their course. And I find a can of daylight ECN-2 film for a reasonable price (aka cheap) on the big auction site or something. Or, curiosity gets the best of me and I just go for the tungsten balance.

Athiril · Mar 13, 2012

I ordered some CD-2 from artcraft some time back, he doesn't send outside U.S. on many things anymore etc, as he's never been supposed to be doing in that in the first place unfortunately iirc.

Although you could try a shipping proxy, ie: he sends to a U.S. and they forward it to you, works great with many things.

Athiril · Mar 13, 2012

sweat100 said:
By the way, what is the long form for HAS? I could not search the full term online. :confused:
I will rebottle the chemicals to smaller containers, however as you have mentioned, oxygen will get in nonetheless during the rebottling process. Assuming I rebottled it and used dry nitrogen to purge out the air from container, any indication how long will it last when it is unmixed (Part A and B separate) condition?

Hydroxylamine Sulphate, it's in part B of the Flexicolor kit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxylammonium_sulfate

Photo Engineer · Mar 13, 2012

If you repack the concentrates in a nitrogen glove box, the keeping properties are very good, but if you repack or use part in ambient room conditions and then try to blanket the developer concentrate with nitrogen it will not work as well. If you use nitrogen over the mixed developer in a full sealed bottle, it should keep for 1 - 2 weeks unused.

IDK for sure. It has been years since I worked with the ECN developer. I may have to re-read some of my own work on this to give more information. Try this: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3615503.pdf

PE

sweat100 · Mar 13, 2012

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
Sending 2 rolls to USA is not feasible but making 100 liters developer for 2 rolls is feasible. Great logic.

Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough. I intend to shoot Vision film for the next 1 year (since you knew that I already got 2 tins of film for a start). I do not mind sending to US 2 rolls to develop and see the results. After posting and reading up on this forum, the consensus I get from the discussion is that C-41 is not suitable at all thus I would need to source the chemicals locally when I am doing it for the long run.

sweat100 · Mar 13, 2012

Thank you for the post, I have read it. Will be consolidating the list I got from the thread and the helpful post on this threads on the labs to go to.
With regards to mixing your own ECN-2... Getting some of the chemicals components maybe difficult here. Kodak also did a publication on their chemicals list as well.

Perhaps you can find some short ends on eBay and film production houses which I read about in here.

kb3lms said:
Have you seen this posting:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

It gives a DIY formula for ECN-2 developer. Last I checked you could get CD-3 at Artcraft:

http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/products/products-page/general-chemistry/a-m/

Not sure how that works from Singapore, though.

It's on my list to try after some of my current projects have run their course. And I find a can of daylight ECN-2 film for a reasonable price (aka cheap) on the big auction site or something. Or, curiosity gets the best of me and I just go for the tungsten balance.

sweat100 · Mar 13, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
If you repack the concentrates in a nitrogen glove box, the keeping properties are very good, but if you repack or use part in ambient room conditions and then try to blanket the developer concentrate with nitrogen it will not work as well. If you use nitrogen over the mixed developer in a full sealed bottle, it should keep for 1 - 2 weeks unused.

IDK for sure. It has been years since I worked with the ECN developer. I may have to re-read some of my own work on this to give more information. Try this: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3615503.pdf

PE

Thank you PE for the insights. I will download the pdf and have a read on it. I will see if i can make my own semi-nitrogen glove box with a big plastic bag.

sweat100 · Mar 13, 2012

Athiril said:
Hydroxylamine Sulphate, it's in part B of the Flexicolor kit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxylammonium_sulfate

Thank you! I chanced upon your blog while reading on ECN-2. You do quite a number of alternative processes. Wonderful!

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Mar 13, 2012

Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough. I intend to shoot Vision film for the next 1 year (since you knew that I already got 2 tins of film for a start). I do not mind sending to US 2 rolls to develop and see the results. After posting and reading up on this forum, the consensus I get from the discussion is that C-41 is not suitable at all thus I would need to source the chemicals locally when I am doing it for the long run.

PE ,

Would it be possible to buy powdered chemicals and make for example only two liters of developer ? Do ECN2 powdered chemicals durable for long time ?

Umut

newcan1 · Mar 13, 2012

I regularly mix a DIY ECN-2 formula from dry chemicals and it works just fine. I think the vision 3 films are awesome - If I can find some of my scans, I will post a couple here. The one below was done on a cheap scanner - film was Vision 3 250D

Printing analog in a darkroom would produce lower contrast prints, but adding some hydrogen peroxide to the developer (10ml/L) brings the contrast up nicely (Thanks Photo Engineer for putting that suggestion in another APUG thread).

I love shooting stills on movie film so much that I have started to stockpile the stuff! So far everything I have tested has still been good. I picked up some allegedly cold stored ECR 200T recently for little money - rather old, can't wait to test. If the colors are off maybe I can use it for b&w!

newcan1 · Mar 13, 2012

Oh, and as to storage life of dry chemicals, they seem almost indefinite. Some of the ingredients used to process the image in my last post were almost 30 years old. The chemical most likely to go bad is the CD-3 -- but by way of comparison, I still have some CD-4 that I bought in 1987, and could still use for C-41 (I'd have to boost the amount by 20% or so because its effectiveness is slightly reduced).

Photo Engineer · Mar 13, 2012

Dry chemicals work just fine and will keep nearly forever dry (except for the color developing agent itself).

CD4 is used in C41 and CD3 is used in the ECN process. These two developing agents yield different dyes with different hues and different stability. Crossing films between processes cause faults in dye hue and image stability that you may not wish. But then, I have said that over and over about this type of cross process as well as the cross between E6 and C41.

PE

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Mar 13, 2012

Newcan1 , that is excellent news. Where do you live ? Can you sell some dry powders to Singapore to Sweet100 ?

newcan1 · Mar 13, 2012

Hi Mustafa: I live in the US (Tennessee). I'm sorry but I'm not really in a position to supply the chemicals. However, I obtain them from artcraftchemicals.com, digitaltruth.com, and photoformulary.com. I don't know what overseas shipping would be, but each place sells in relatively small quantities.

For sodium carbonate I have found it perfectly acceptable to use washing soda. There is also a supplier called chemistrystore.com that sells some of the more basic chemicals (borax, sodium carbonate, sodium sulfite - don't remember which are used in ECN-2 developer) in larger quantities quite inexpensively, but again, shipping may be your issue. You may find some of these chemicals available more locally.

hrst · Mar 14, 2012

I had problems sourcing Antifoggant AF-2000 when I first mixed my own ECN-2 developers. However, I got it from Kodak a while ago, but I had to buy 10 litres. It should be very stable and keep well. I might be able to send a little bit for those who really need this. PM me if interested. The developer will work at least quite well even without the antifoggant, however.

Dry CD-3 seems to keep quite well, I have had it from 2008 or so and it's still working. It has caked up a bit. AFAIK, it should change its color and appearance when it's going bad.

sweat100 · Mar 14, 2012

Hi Mustafa, thanks for helping me out in this aspect.
Hi hrst, no worries, I will contact the local chemical stores to buy what is available. As for those chemicals that not available locally, I will check out artcraftchemicals.com, digitaltruth.com, and photoformulary.com

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Mar 14, 2012

Good luck , stay connected with APUG , these people are artists and naturally have good hearts. Dont forget my word , Technicolor can process your films , 30 rolls , 50 dollars. Shoot whatever you can and collect in freezer in sealed packages than send to USA. May be they can even scan them , after lots of experience , you can order special post processing for special look. It costs money but what a great fun !

What is your camera and lens ? Try to buy German lenses especially a screw mounted 50s Leica , believe me it improves your photography as Mercedes improves your driving experience. If you have no money , you can buy 60 dollars Leica Point and Shoot , it is really amazing.
Spend less than 15 dollars to subscribe and share your pictures. First 100 posts are difficult but after all it goes smoothly.
It must be 5 AM at Singapore.

AlexLiang · Jun 7, 2022

Athiril said:
Remjet is not difficult to take off.

ECN-2 film last time I processed it in C-41 it came out absolutely unusable rubbish, I was using 5201 50D. Anyway, it looks good in ECN-2 chemistry (duh), also works well in split-bath applications.

As for remjet, if you agitate with an alkali prebath, you'll soften it and get some of it off, agitate it plenty, whatevers' left shouldn't budge during processing and can be removed at the end, don't forget to rinse several stops or stop and rinse to neutralise the pH again.

I've also not used a prebath and processed one shot before, I've read warnings about mishandling and getting remjet lodged into the emulsion, but this didn't seem to happen processing like this (logically if it did, it would also happen in the prebath), and wiping it off at the end still works fine, as there's none left in solution.

I squeegee it off with my thumb and finger with disposable nitrile gloves on into water, until it's completely clean with no more black coming off or in the water etc, which I wash one more time and stabilise the film from there.

Last time I ran it:

50D in ECN-2 test #1 by athiril, on Flickr

ECN-2 chemistry isn't expensive, it's a special order item via the catalogue via someone with a Kodak account. I managed to get it even over here.

Hello, thanks for the information. I doubt if alkali pre bath would affect the strength of c41 chemical, i.g. to reduce the use cycle of c41chemical. Do you think so?

ECN-2 and C-41 image color differences

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