Ebay Horrors? Here's one... The "vitage 35mm camara Praktica MTL 5B "

Fin · Mar 4, 2019

Is there a thread for Ebay Horrors? I couldn't find one, but I think there should be... I'll post this here, and if there is any interest, could someone with powers move it to a suitable home?

Right. So, back story... I'm just looking at the prices of Praktica MTL5s for sale on that Ebay. I have one that cost me 9/10ths of bugger all, and I just want to see what the current prices are. And then up onto my screen pops this beauty!

Oh noes!

The seller notes say: Camera works, not to sure about the lens but will send it with the camera. As ABBA would say "Take a chance on me"

OK, so why would the camera work and the lens not? Look through the little window at the back. See things? Yup, that lens is probably doing it's job. More importantly however, I think ABBA would be asking why some cretin has driven 2 self tapping screws through the front of the sodding camera!

Kodachromeguy · Mar 4, 2019

That is a horror. But possibly you should rename your thread to "Ebay idiot sellers." Some of these observations have been listed in an old thread titled "untested."
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ebay-lingo-untested.160004/

Here is some of the bizarre vocabulary I have encountered from ePrey camera sellers:

1. Excellent condition (but has been listed as for parts or repair). Well, if "excellent," does it work?
2. "I know nothing about cameras." Why do sellers even write an inane sentence like that? So that a buyer will be sympathetic? How utterly queer.
3. Sorry, I can't wind the lever and click the button because it is sold as shown in the photographs.
4. The photographs make part of the description. Well, duuuh.....
5. Excellent condition but I don't have a battery to check if the meter does anything at all. (And am to f**king lazy or cheap to buy a button cell at the grocery store.) Many of these sellers are even too lazy or stupid to open the battery compartment cap and look inside.
6. My dad/uncle/cousin took great care of his cameras - yes, 30 years ago, and the camera was stored in a humid garage since then.
7. "See the photographs." Yes, 2 of the camera still in the case, and 7 close-ups of the nasty old case. Even the most ignorant non-photography seller surely knows that a crappy case is of no value and the buyer wants to see if the camera is intact. Well, maybe not.....
8. "Clean for its age." OK, and you were too lazy to take an alcohol swab and clean the schmutz and crap from the camera before you took some pictures??
9. "Rare." Um, no, if you spent two minutes with a search, you would see another 65 for sale right now.
10. Selling for parts. Meaning, I will not stand behind the item and really don't care if it works or not.

AgX · Mar 5, 2019

Prices depend... I buy only local.
I might buy this combo for the lens and the leather straps. However there is big chance that this one was stored in humid condition (corrosion marks at film rails).
But I too bought stuff that turned out worse than I expected, either as I had overlooked something, or not even thought of. Or that I not realized that (local) market prices meanwhile have fallen beyond what I thought.
And I too declared things dead, without realizing that I just operated them not right.

So what?

Arbitrarium · Mar 5, 2019

Kodachromeguy said:
7. "See the photographs." Yes, 2 of the camera still in the case, and 7 close-ups of the nasty old case. Even the most ignorant non-photography seller surely knows that a crappy case is of no value and the buyer wants to see if the camera is intact. Well, maybe not.....

I see this constantly and it always baffles me.

Vaidotas · Mar 5, 2019

I think ebay begining was as an auctioneers site.
Started my account around 1999 ...
Amost every listing on my interest was auction.
Novadays its just another eshop.
And thats happens because some folks believes, that good photo equipment is nice place for investment.
So there are catlabs and so on.
You can relist items a lot of times and still have a round profit.
I'm just saying that ebay changed its busines model and thats is a biggest horror

Dali · Mar 5, 2019

The best (or the worse...) is when the seller takes a picture of paper sheets out of the wrap. Great job, guy. You just ruined it. This is why i never buy partial boxes.

John51 · Mar 5, 2019

A while back, I was interested in an 80mm Zuiko bellows lens. Auction starting price was ~ 75% of what they usually go for and I was tempted. Until I checked out the sellers other items. Lots of film gear and all bin at prices on the high side of what they usually go for. Seller had done their homework. Just one item for auction, the Zuiko 80mm. No returns as it's an auction. Far as I could tell, no actual lies in the description so defo no returns. They were standing behind everything else they sold but not the Zuiko. Hmmm...

I do like to gamble on an auction sometimes, feels great when it pays off and only a pocket money loss when out of luck. Best results so far is a £10 Oly XA with a shutter problem and a £26 OM2n with a meter problem. Both fixed by fitting fresh silver oxide batteries. In both cases, they weren't selling any other camera gear and had good feedback.

bin seems to be the way to go if selling kit that is in good nick. Say a fair price is £80 for a good condition item. Bay fees are 10%, plus paypal fees. Listing fees are relatively inexpensive. Go for a net £100 + shipping. Means a bin price of something like £120. Call it £140 and you've factored in a couple of returns and multiple listing fees. 'Returns accepted within 30 days, buyer to pay return postage.' Keep listing it until it sells.

Much as I like a bargain, I've also gone for overpriced bin items because it's insurance rather than gambling. Pay extra to ensure a good result or my only loss is the cost of returning it.

jim10219 · Mar 5, 2019

I've had excellent luck on eBay. I like it better than buying in person because their return policy is so generous. I've had a few problems over the years, but they always work out in the end.

I think the trick is you have to be smart about it. If the pictures aren't good and you can't tell if there's anything wrong with it, avoid it. If the seller's description isn't very detailed or seems off in some way, avoid it. If the seller's feedback is poor or they haven't sold much yet, avoid it. Basically, if anything looks out of place, just walk away. The key is being patient and not buying on impulse. Sometimes I'll wait 6 months to a year for the item I want to come up for sale at a good price, in good condition, and from a reputable seller.

I've had a lot worse luck as a seller. I've had a few people buy things from me and then decide they don't want it, or know how to use it, and send it back to me saying it's broken. I even had one guy go as far as to damage the circuit board of an electronic because he decided he didn't want it, and decided instead to say it was broken during shipment (which if it was damaged bad enough to destroy a circuit board, then there would be externally visible damage as well). In those situations, you just have to take your lumps, give them their money back, be polite, and pay for shipping both ways. It sucks, but if you play the long game and do enough business, you'll still come out ahead in the long run. Or at least you think you do until they send you your eBay fee statements!

ronwhit · Mar 10, 2019

Years ago, I was an active ebay seller and occasional buyer. Generally, I had good luck in both roles, but left when a paypal account became a requirement. Unfortunately, I may have to return to ebay to sell some of the mass of Canon manual focus equipment I've acquired over the last 46 years. I say this as I've not had good results with either craigslist or (shudder) the Photrio classifieds. I realize the ebay fees are high and it seems to have become a dealer's marketplace, but I see few options. Suggestions are welcome.....

Kodachromeguy · Mar 10, 2019

ronwhit said:
Years ago, I was an active ebay seller and occasional buyer. Generally, I had good luck in both roles, but left when a paypal account became a requirement. I realize the ebay fees are high and it seems to have become a dealer's marketplace, but I see few options. Suggestions are welcome.....

Indeed, it is a dilemma. Some thoughts:
1. The big advantage of eBay is that you have an audience of millions. People from all over the globe look for stuff, and even if you restrict selling to customers in USA and Canada, you still have a huge market. My advice is take really detailed pictures of the of items you are selling and be totally transparent with any faults. Buyers of older camera equipment are, I think mostly a reasonably honest crowd. Sure, you will have more scammers or scumballs if you are selling or buying Leica because of the money involved, but old Canon lenses? Only one buyer tried to scam me once when he claimed that an Olympus lens had fungus in it. He wanted a "partial rebate." But I think that is rare.
2. PayPal: I was dubious, too. I have not had any issues, but I do not keep much in my account, so if it is hacked, not much can be extracted. You are right, the fees are high. In the old days, I accepted personal checks and waited to ship the item until the check cleared. I think you have no alternative now.
Good luck.

guangong · Mar 10, 2019

I prefer buying from a reputable dealer. There are a few brick&mortor stores that list items on eBay, and I have had good luck with them. Also, on line stores such as Igor’s and KEH.
On occasion there are sellers who are egenuinely ignorant. Sometimes the photos must be scrutinized. Gave my daughter one of my Nizo Super8 cameras, but needed a couple battery packs for her. A week later there was a listing for a Nizo 6000 series power charger. Today nobody wants a clunky Nizo sound camera. But closer inspection of items included in eBay photo also showed two battery packs for Nizo silent cameras. I was the only bidder and got battery packs cheap. Will give battery charger to my movie camera service man.
Generally speaking, if an item listed on eBay has one moving part I assume it won’t work.

ciniframe · Mar 11, 2019

Translation for common e-bay terms for camera sales;
Term; /Translation;
"I don't know anything about cameras." / It's broken.
"Worked last time I used it." / It's broken. (the last time they used it was 1981)
"Due to age, sold as is." / It's broken. (but I still want a 'like new and working' price for it)
"Needs a little cleaning." / It'd broken. (and, smells like mold and cigarette smoke)
"Selling for a friend." /It's broken. (and, I already kept all the good stuff, this is the trash)
"guaranteed returns." /It's broken. (and if you believe that I have a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn)
etc.

John Earley · Mar 11, 2019

The line I see occasionally on Craigslist is "they don't sell film any more but it would be nice to display on a shelf."

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 21, 2019

Kodachromeguy said:
That is a horror. But possibly you should rename your thread to "Ebay idiot sellers." Some of these observations have been listed in an old thread titled "untested."
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ebay-lingo-untested.160004/

Here is some of the bizarre vocabulary I have encountered from ePrey camera sellers:

1. Excellent condition (but has been listed as for parts or repair). Well, if "excellent," does it work?
2. "I know nothing about cameras." Why do sellers even write an inane sentence like that? So that a buyer will be sympathetic? How utterly queer.
3. Sorry, I can't wind the lever and click the button because it is sold as shown in the photographs.
4. The photographs make part of the description. Well, duuuh.....
5. Excellent condition but I don't have a battery to check if the meter does anything at all. (And am to f**king lazy or cheap to buy a button cell at the grocery store.) Many of these sellers are even too lazy or stupid to open the battery compartment cap and look inside.
6. My dad/uncle/cousin took great care of his cameras - yes, 30 years ago, and the camera was stored in a humid garage since then.
7. "See the photographs." Yes, 2 of the camera still in the case, and 7 close-ups of the nasty old case. Even the most ignorant non-photography seller surely knows that a crappy case is of no value and the buyer wants to see if the camera is intact. Well, maybe not.....
8. "Clean for its age." OK, and you were too lazy to take an alcohol swab and clean the schmutz and crap from the camera before you took some pictures??
9. "Rare." Um, no, if you spent two minutes with a search, you would see another 65 for sale right now.
10. Selling for parts. Meaning, I will not stand behind the item and really don't care if it works or not.

Well, good portion of these sellers (and I'd venture to say majority of them) are crooks who do these descriptions while knowing exactly what the problem is. The difference for them is, that have they been honest the asking price would have to be half or less, so they take a chance on buyers who either fall for it or are hopeful things are OK or still not as bad for the price (I have done this myself and so far relative success given the number of purchases I have made, but still guilty of supporting this garbage style of selling). Many times though the price is worth taking a chance, especially in the days when some sellers do think they have a piece of "culty" gold while selling a common and substantially cheaper widely available item.

But, in majority of cases I ask questions to at least have a chance at partial refund, which has worked out quite OK. Sometimes I run into an odd case where things are quite far from description or messages exchanged, or like recent slide projector purchase described as in good condition (which I assumed it also worked) only to get one in good cosmetic condition but just almost working. Seller then said, good condition was only referring to cosmetics. Price was right though (as I have same model, so spares are now here for actually very cheap and looking good).

trendland · Mar 21, 2019

Kodachromeguy said:
That is a horror. But possibly you should rename your thread to "Ebay idiot sellers." Some of these observations have been listed in an old thread titled "untested."
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ebay-lingo-untested.160004/

Here is some of the bizarre vocabulary I have encountered from ePrey camera sellers:

1. Excellent condition (but has been listed as for parts or repair). Well, if "excellent," does it work?
2. "I know nothing about cameras." Why do sellers even write an inane sentence like that? So that a buyer will be sympathetic? How utterly queer.
3. Sorry, I can't wind the lever and click the button because it is sold as shown in the photographs.
4. The photographs make part of the description. Well, duuuh.....
5. Excellent condition but I don't have a battery to check if the meter does anything at all. (And am to f**king lazy or cheap to buy a button cell at the grocery store.) Many of these sellers are even too lazy or stupid to open the battery compartment cap and look inside.
6. My dad/uncle/cousin took great care of his cameras - yes, 30 years ago, and the camera was stored in a humid garage since then.
7. "See the photographs." Yes, 2 of the camera still in the case, and 7 close-ups of the nasty old case. Even the most ignorant non-photography seller surely knows that a crappy case is of no value and the buyer wants to see if the camera is intact. Well, maybe not.....
8. "Clean for its age." OK, and you were too lazy to take an alcohol swab and clean the schmutz and crap from the camera before you took some pictures??
9. "Rare." Um, no, if you spent two minutes with a search, you would see another 65 for sale right now.
10. Selling for parts. Meaning, I will not stand behind the item and really don't care if it works or not.

You should add too your list :

11. film stored allways in the dark = was not stored in the garden over some years !

with regards

Kino · Mar 21, 2019

I have split sympathies here; the seller should disclose all they know (which can legitimately be nothing), but the buyer shouldn't be such an idiot to think they are getting a pristine, fully functional 50 year old camera or lens unless the auction specifically says it IS so.

Even well established dealers and knowledgeable sellers on the 'Bay have restored to using "as is" or "untested" in order to insulate themselves from unrealistic consumers.

People who purchase a 50+ year old camera should have enough common sense to ask a few questions, closely examine the photos and weigh the risks while considering the price.

If you bid on a camera that simply says "used" or "vintage" or "not tested" and the listing says "no returns", then you are gambling that the camera works, can be economically repaired or is a display unit worth simply putting on a shelf.

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 21, 2019

ciniframe said:
Translation for common e-bay terms for camera sales;
Term; /Translation;
"I don't know anything about cameras." / It's broken.
"Worked last time I used it." / It's broken. (the last time they used it was 1981)
"Due to age, sold as is." / It's broken. (but I still want a 'like new and working' price for it)
"Needs a little cleaning." / It'd broken. (and, smells like mold and cigarette smoke)
"Selling for a friend." /It's broken. (and, I already kept all the good stuff, this is the trash)
"guaranteed returns." /It's broken. (and if you believe that I have a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn)
etc.

Unfortunately you are largely generalizing. I've bought many cameras so described, granted - price was worth a try, and absolutely most of them either worked fine, or had problems that actually did confirm "seller had no idea about cameras". The latter mostly applied to electronic shutters that a good enough battery to power it up, some needed a quick check in user manual to unlock stuck advance/shutter release. So while sometimes you would be right, a lot of times it is not as simple.

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 21, 2019

Kino said:
I have split sympathies here; the seller should disclose all they know (which can legitimately be nothing), but the buyer shouldn't be such an idiot to think they are getting a pristine, fully functional 50 year old camera or lens unless the auction specifically says it IS so.

Even well established dealers and knowledgeable sellers on the 'Bay have restored to using "as is" or "untested" in order to insulate themselves from unrealistic consumers.

People who purchase a 50+ year old camera should have enough common sense to ask a few questions, closely examine the photos and weigh the risks while considering the price.

If you bid on a camera that simply says "used" or "vintage" or "not tested" and the listing says "no returns", then you are gambling that the camera works, can be economically repaired or is a display unit worth simply putting on a shelf.

Agree. In critical purchases where price is actually on higher side, pointed questions to seller are needed, replies judged by response time and relevance to questions asked. If response is not coming, it is likely already answered.

Wes/HikePics · Mar 24, 2019

One of my favorites:

"Item is in excellent physical condition. Contact me with any questions"
"Hello, could you tell me the condition of the battery compartment?"

......silence......

Fin · Jun 18, 2019

Anyone after a Helios 44M-5 lens?

eMoron said:
Lens is in nice condition with minor wear on the body.

Er, whut?

eMoron said:
It does have some damage to the filter thread - see photos.

Some damage? That's SOME damage?! Wow!

eMoron said:
It is still possible to mount a filter on the front.

Thank goodness for that! At least when someone tears a chunk out of one of their fingers, at least they can take some comfort in the fact that they can still use a filter. Anything else?

eMoron said:
Aperture ring moves fine but the blades are occasionally a bit sticky and don't contract fully. I can't see any oil on the blades themselves though.
There is what looks like fungus under the front lens

So it's not in 'Nice condition' then, is it? You complete cretin!

Linky

AgX · Jun 18, 2019

Milling out a damaged part of a filter thread is a perfectly working way to make such lens still fully usable, likely at a bargain price.

(Unless the barrel is compressed too, but depending on barrel design that not necessarily is so.)

seall · Jun 18, 2019

For Sale: 10 Boxes of Photographic Paper, in very good condition. Paper has been counted and checked.

Picture: 10 open boxes of paper with light tight envelope open showing paper in very good condition.

Kodachromeguy · Jun 23, 2019

I found another one. On a whim, I looked at Linhof 220 cameras. One dealer wrote:

"LATE MODEL Linhof BLACK 220 with 95mm F3.5 Technikar LENS and SIDE GRIP with CABLE RELEASE
The camera is in a good working order but the rangefinder is not"

This is from a notorious camera ePrey seller in USA with poor feedback. I won't list the name, but you can easily find him. He even asks buyers to pay extra outside of eBay.

Love2Live · Jun 23, 2019

Kodachromeguy said:
1. Excellent condition (but has been listed as for parts or repair). Well, if "excellent," does it work?
2. "I know nothing about cameras." Why do sellers even write an inane sentence like that? So that a buyer will be sympathetic? How utterly queer.
3. Sorry, I can't wind the lever and click the button because it is sold as shown in the photographs.
4. The photographs make part of the description. Well, duuuh.....
5. Excellent condition but I don't have a battery to check if the meter does anything at all. (And am to f**king lazy or cheap to buy a button cell at the grocery store.) Many of these sellers are even too lazy or stupid to open the battery compartment cap and look inside.
6. My dad/uncle/cousin took great care of his cameras - yes, 30 years ago, and the camera was stored in a humid garage since then.
7. "See the photographs." Yes, 2 of the camera still in the case, and 7 close-ups of the nasty old case. Even the most ignorant non-photography seller surely knows that a crappy case is of no value and the buyer wants to see if the camera is intact. Well, maybe not.....
8. "Clean for its age." OK, and you were too lazy to take an alcohol swab and clean the schmutz and crap from the camera before you took some pictures??
9. "Rare." Um, no, if you spent two minutes with a search, you would see another 65 for sale right now.
10. Selling for parts. Meaning, I will not stand behind the item and really don't care if it works or not.

Some valid contentions but l would argue:
1. Ex cond = cosmetic, l guess
2. I know nothing = Person selling off dad's gear?
4. I guess this means there might be stuff they missed. I reckon some people hide behind this term too, but don't worry, if it's deceptively stated and utterly wrecked in reality, i'll just return it (l once bought a new woolly jumper without tags ... it had holes in it and was clearly a piece of discarded old clothing ... it was so bad l just took pity on the seller and told him not to do it again but in hindsight l'd say the seller knew what he was doing).
8. Clean for its age ... Would you invest in cotton buds and 2 hours of cleaning time not to mention isopropyl alcohol, for a £20 old bit of bric a brac that might have a fault you missed because nothing lasts forever, it all breaks eventually?
10. Selling for parts ... Right then, l buy only for parts. Simple.

ciniframe said:
Translation for common e-bay terms for camera sales;
Term; /Translation;
"I don't know anything about cameras." / It's broken.
"Worked last time I used it." / It's broken. (the last time they used it was 1981)
"Due to age, sold as is." / It's broken. (but I still want a 'like new and working' price for it)
"Needs a little cleaning." / It'd broken. (and, smells like mold and cigarette smoke)
"Selling for a friend." /It's broken. (and, I already kept all the good stuff, this is the trash)
"guaranteed returns." /It's broken. (and if you believe that I have a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn)
etc.

Good points but l'd argue the following:
"Selling for a friend." = Distancing self from that bungled burglary a few weeks back. With the dead pensioner. Maybe call the cops.

blockend · Jul 11, 2019

My rule of thumb is never to bid on desirable cameras at eBay auction. Run of the mill stuff isn't usually an issue, they were made by the million and the return policy favours the buyer if there's a problem. Fancy stuff on the other hand is too tempting for scam artists. If it has a known value, lots of people will want it, name a solid BIN price and it'll sell.

Ebay Horrors? Here's one... The "vitage 35mm camara Praktica MTL 5B "

Deleted member 88956

Deleted member 88956

Deleted member 88956

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