eBay declining, or is it just a little bad luck?

spacer · May 10, 2015

In the past, I've had a GREAT time with ordering stuff from the Bay. Of course, I tend to be careful from whom I purchase, and it helps to know a bit about what you're purchasing.
Lately, though, it's been more of a crapshoot.
Stuff I've bought from KEH and B&H are great, still, but private party stuff... not so much. I bought the Land camera from a guy who claimed it was "Fully Functional excellent condition".
Well, it ain't... and he hemmed and hawed long enough that I can't even leave a negative review on him. That camera will probably either get a pinhole, or manual lens conversion at some point.

More recently, I bought a similarly described SB24 flash for my F5. I arrived with a split battery and a compartment full of crusty goo. I cleaned it as best I could, and even with fresh batteries, it won't even attempt to power up. (further advice on this is appreciated... may even consider an external power pack, if it doesn't require the internal batteries to work.)
The seller tells me he'd consider a partial refund fair. If I get anything back out of it, I'll call it a win.

Kinda makes me wish there was a more active local trade in film gear, though.

mgb74 · May 10, 2015

Was the SB24 classified as "used"? If so, it's supposed to work. Just file a claim and don't accept less than full refund including original shipping.

Barry S · May 10, 2015

Sellers on eBay tend to describe everything as excellent condition. If the buyer doesn't complain, they end up ahead of the game. If I receive an item that's significantly different than described, I give the seller a chance to address the issue within a few days. If that doesn't work, I file a dispute. Disputes can easily be withdrawn if the seller responds. I always trust the photos more than the description and generally assume everything is in worse condition than described.

John Koehrer · May 10, 2015

I wouldn't mess with it more than you have.
Corrosion like that can/will damage the internal wire itself. Send it back, it's not really worth dealing with.
If you do fool with it and manage to get the case apart, the large capacitor in there may still hold a
decent charge. That may lead to an unpleasant and SHOCKING experience. :eek:

Richard S. (rich815) · May 10, 2015

Assuming it was described as working then return and get your money and shipping cost refunded. I rarely use eBay now. Way too many thing received that even when they work were way optimistically described. Sure maybe cheaper than KEH or here but in the end one or two sideways deals it's just not worth the hassle. Got the auction #? Let us see the exact description.

mdarnton · May 10, 2015

I have bought tons of camera stuff at Ebay with extremely good results. I never believe the listing, always look at things really carefully to figure out what I can, and I know what the likely problems will be for the things I'm buying, that I'm going to have to live with. (Is someone can't write a good description because he doesn't know what he's selling, how can you expect him to know the flaws?) If you just go at it like shopping at a grocery store, expecting everything to be perfect, sure, you're going to get burned. It's just a matter of having expectations that are properly in line with the venue. Take some personal responsibility for looking out for your own interests, and things can work out fine.

Xmas · May 10, 2015

Part of the problem may be the ten years since kit was stored in drawer or under stair cupboard or loft.
As people went digital fungus or if batteries not removed... Etc.
Good condition equipment is becoming more difficult in UK.
Ming vases were cheap until 99.999% were dropped.
Prices still seem to be falling cept for lenses usable on digital.
Cept for rangefinder kit like canon LTM and Leicas, the Leicas are collector driven can't understand the canon.

Fixcinater · May 10, 2015

I've had good luck on eBay but it really is a crapshoot and you have to assume the worst. Flash is an easy dispute though, that $$$ should come back to you relatively easily.

If it's something important, I buy it after putting my hands on it.

Two23 · May 10, 2015

I've had very good luck with ebay over the past 15 years. A few months ago I bought a Sigma 105mm macro that was advertised as HSM OS, but it wasn't. The seller really didn't know cameras, and when I explained he quickly gave me a refund. I have him top feedback. I would email your seller and tell them that the corroded batteries is a significant negative affecting value and ask for a full refund. Sellers really do NOT want negative feedback and a dispute filed. I have no doubt he'll come around. Right now I'm looking to buy a Nikon F3/T in good condition on ebay etc., and am going mostly by the photos.

Kent in SD

Richard S. (rich815) · May 10, 2015

I should qualify my comment above a little. I have 100% positive feedback on eBay with a score of 447 and a member since 1999. I've bought and sold many many photographic items on eBay. That said the last few years I've seen way less quality listings and been way more disappointed than I had been the previous 10-12 years or so in using eBay and now find buying items here using WTB postings or through KEH to be a much more satisfying and actually efficient system and frankly a better "buy" if I include how my time is spent and factor in a frustration "quotient".

Old-N-Feeble · May 11, 2015

mgb74 said:
Was the SB24 classified as "used"? If so, it's supposed to work. Just file a claim and don't accept less than full refund including original shipping.

Right. Contact the seller about the problem and if they don't respond within two business days then file a claim. If they delay for any reason then file a claim. If you wait too long then you're screwed. Sometimes filing a claim is your best option. Also, filing a claim is the only way you can be assure of getting a full refund including postage both ways. If the seller obviously exaggerated the condition of the item or outright lied then you're due every penny back... file a claim.

Oh... and file a claim.

Pioneer · May 11, 2015

I think that the problem is this.

A lot of people, some of them that live on APUG, have bought cameras and other gear in the past from E-Bay. Instead of repairing things when they bought something that didn't work they put it back up on E-Bay and bought another...and another...and another, until they finally got one that worked. As enough people have been doing that over the last few years we are now reaching the point where all the cameras and other gear that actually worked has become very rare. The only things left are those items that people did not want to fix.

Of course, the only way to sell the items that didn't work was to describe them in glowing terms, post very selective photos that obscured the flaws, and then play dumb when the buyer found out the item didn't work. This is also why we now have such draconian return policies that are making sellers yell and holler.

Of course it could just be bad luck.

Dennis S · May 11, 2015

Seems like over the years I've had good luck. It wasn't because I trusted people with the description it only mattered when it was in my hands and used the item. If it was crap it was returned promptly only a few times though. Seems like the eBlay has really turned into gamble. Seems everyone wants to buy low and sell high. After the item has passed through so many hands the price is beyond reasonable. The best stuff stays with the buyer and sold privately. I have quit try to find a little old lady who is trying to sell her husbands equipment. It does not happen any longer. Only thing I buy are new or parts that does not matter condition. eBay are responsible for their product downturn buy letting anyone buy or sell their junk. With KEH the item is examined when bought and after checked by qualified person before being resold. Responsible when the product is sold to a customer.

Filing a claim promptly gets a very fast response from the seller.

Xmas · May 11, 2015

Cuts both ways, chum sold working F2 with spare screen, he had bought and fitted a different screen, as he could not live with the original one.
Email from lady buyer saying spare screen not correct part.
Chum indicated part came fitted to camera.
The email chain continued until lady's email said expert demoted to idiot after I tried screen in camera and it is better that the other.
Think it was an F3 screen...

Slixtiesix · May 11, 2015

I´ve been buying and selling on Ebay for 12 years now. I have been perfectly happy with 80-90 % of what I bought so far. Some lenses that I had bought had fungus in it but the sellers agreed to take them back in all cases. It´s true that people often tend to describe things in a more favorable condition than they really are, but my attitude is the following: If I want something new and working, I have to pay the price for it and buy either new (if possible) or from a dealer. If I shop on Ebay, I have to expect that things will probably have seen some use. Some time ago I have bought a Hasselblad to Nikon adapter that was advertised as "as new" but after it had arrived it was obvious that it had been used (paint wear). I did not bother because it worked flawlessly and I paid less than half of what it would have cost new. On the other hand I bought a diopter lens for my Hasselblad recently, advertised "mint, new", for which I paid a premium (50$) since they are not made anymore. I was disappointed when it arrived because dirt around the mount and fine scratches on the glass told a different story so I pressed the seller to either take it back or to give me a 40% refund. Got the refund and I´m pleased now! The option to file a claim has made things a lot easier for buyers to get their rights respected. It was far more difficult some years ago.

Effectivepixels · May 11, 2015

I've bought many great cameras on ebay that were exactly as described but I recently bought a Yashica D that was not so. It was described as used but in working condition. The listing had tons of pictures and the camera looked great and the seller had 100% positive feedback. The camera even had the original leather case. I purchased it and when it arrived not only was the shutter completely locked up but the lens was misaligned and wouldn't focus. Even the leather case was torn apart at every seem. Apparently he held it together with something long enough to take passable photos. I reported this to the seller and asked for a refund within 3 hours of the delivery and his response to me was to say that " I probably broke it and he would in no way consider a refund". After a few emails back and forth he stopped responding so I waited the mandatory time until i could file a dispute. After I filed the dispute his attitude changed 180 degrees. He pretty much begged me to rescind it because he said it would ruin his shipping discounts. I know that if it went to a judgement from ebay they would have sided with me as I have heard the buyers get substantial latitude in such matters. The trick is if you used the system they have in place its very hard to get totally hosed on ebay as a buyer. The downside is it often takes time and your money is tied up until it is resolved. If you are patient and willing to play the game you can still get good deals on ebay just try to shop wisely, be prepared to forcefully make someone take back an item that is not as described and willing to wait several weeks at least to get your money back.

Johnkpap · May 11, 2015

I think the trend with eBay and used equipment is as follows :

Film cameras are getting older, and a lot of the best Manual cameras were bought up by users, students and collectors at the start of the Autofocus period (Approx 1995-2003) nobody wants the plastic AF consumer grade cameras even a Nikon F5 can be found for less than $300.......new it cost over $5000!!!

A very clean collector grade fully working Nikon F2 for the 1970's sells for $300 up to $1200 depending on the model. Most of the classic manual focus cameras are also selling for more than the newer AF cameras.

At the moment there is a over supply of Medum format cameras, a lot of Pro photographers are deciding that
they can do what their customers want the the latest full frame cameras, so they are dumping them on the used market. You can get a lot of nice MF cameras, made by Bronica, Pentax, Mamiya ect for peanuts !!!

A lot of bargin eBay cameras that are being listed by sellers who do not have a clue about what they are selling, these sellers are the ones who buy up estates and auction lots, they also buy at garage/yard sales. These are the ones that you need to buy with caution.......they are likely to be faulty, have fungus or batt leaks, as they have been in a cupboard or box for the past 20 years........STAY AWAY FROM THEM.

The best bargains at moment are being listed by Japanese and German camera stores, also some U.S. stores like KEH and Roberts are now listing a lot of gear as well. Buy from these sellers the descriptions are good and you get
a good deal 99% of the time. Small sellers that have a good description and set of photos who know what they are selling are also a good option, as they have most likely tested everything before listing it. Look at their feedback and look at what other items they have for sale this will give you some idea.

Good luck

johnkpap

Richard S. (rich815) · May 11, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
Got the auction #? Let us see the exact description.

OP, yes? No?

Sirius Glass · May 11, 2015

I would rather pay more at Samys Camera, B&H or KEH and not have to worry about problems than deal with eBay and filing complaints.

Old-N-Feeble · May 11, 2015

I respectfully disagree, Pioneer. I find it difficult to believe that, in most cases, gear passes through several hands without at least one seller being truthful about its condition. I've had decent luck overall buying from eBay sellers though there are times that I had to return something. This is largely due to being relatively careful regarding from whom I buy. If the seller 'obviously' lied then... wait for it... I file a claim... and get every dime back including shipping both ways. If it was an honest mistake and the seller is responsive and willing to accept a return then I don't file a claim and pay the return shipping out of my own pocket.

Pioneer said:
I think that the problem is this.

A lot of people, some of them that live on APUG, have bought cameras and other gear in the past from E-Bay. Instead of repairing things when they bought something that didn't work they put it back up on E-Bay and bought another...and another...and another, until they finally got one that worked. As enough people have been doing that over the last few years we are now reaching the point where all the cameras and other gear that actually worked has become very rare. The only things left are those items that people did not want to fix.

Of course, the only way to sell the items that didn't work was to describe them in glowing terms, post very selective photos that obscured the flaws, and then play dumb when the buyer found out the item didn't work. This is also why we now have such draconian return policies that are making sellers yell and holler.

Of course it could just be bad luck.

Pioneer · May 11, 2015

Old-N-Feeble said:
I respectfully disagree, Pioneer. I find it difficult to believe that, in most cases, gear passes through several hands without at least one seller being truthful about its condition. I've had decent luck overall buying from eBay sellers though there are times that I had to return something. This is largely due to being relatively careful regarding from whom I buy. If the seller 'obviously' lied then... wait for it... I file a claim... and get every dime back including shipping both ways. If it was an honest mistake and the seller is responsive and willing to accept a return then I don't file a claim and pay the return shipping out of my own pocket.

As is your right.

I was only making a speculative observation based on all the negative threads posted regarding E-Bay.

My own experience has generally been pretty favorable over the years.

But of course, what do I know? All of these negative reports must be coming from somewhere...right?

Jeff Bradford · May 11, 2015

When I'm looking at an item on ebay, I automatically assume it is in poor condition until the photos and/or description convince me otherwise. If the description has more disclaimer than information, I pass. If the seller includes lamentations about ebay, paypal, and buyers, I skip over that one. If they're already hostile or defensive before the sale, its because they know they will have to fight you after the sale. I also do not hesitate to open a dispute if an item described as "excellent working condition" turns out to be junk. So I suppose the first rule applies again: assume the seller is junk until the description and feedback convince you otherwise.

The ebay system works pretty well. All of my disputes with sellers have been resolved to my satisfaction. As a seller, I am honest in my descriptions and have never had a dispute or negative feedback.

Old-N-Feeble · May 11, 2015

I understand but don't forget that the average human being will scream and yell if they've been screwed but hardly ever make a whisper if things go well for them. The point is, for every thousand new posts about getting screwed on eBay there is maybe one new post to announce, "Hey, I got a decent deal on eBay and didn't get screwed". More likely there won't even be one post if all goes as expected. So that's at least 1000:1 differential between screwed:not-screwed posts. Of course, this doesn't account for the few posts stating, "Hey, I bought a $1000 camera for $50 off the 'Bay!!".

Pioneer said:
As is your right.

I was only making a speculative observation based on all the negative threads posted regarding E-Bay.

My own experience has generally been pretty favorable over the years.

But of course, what do I know? All of these negative reports must be coming from somewhere...right?

Old-N-Feeble · May 11, 2015

Jeff Bradford said:
When I'm looking at an item on ebay, I automatically assume it is in poor condition until the photos and/or description convince me otherwise. If the description has more disclaimer than information, I pass. If the seller includes lamentations about ebay, paypal, and buyers, I skip over that one. If they're already hostile or defensive before the sale, its because they know they will have to fight you after the sale. I also do not hesitate to open a dispute if an item described as "excellent working condition" turns out to be junk. So I suppose the first rule applies again: assume the seller is junk until the description and feedback convince you otherwise.

The ebay system works pretty well. All of my disputes with sellers have been resolved to my satisfaction. As a seller, I am honest in my descriptions and have never had a dispute or negative feedback.

This is an absolute fact... avoid those sellers no matter what you think of the items they're selling. There's one I see on eBay that lengthily disparages buyers as 'abusive ignorant morons' (highly paraphrased). I can't understand how a jerk like that can even keep his eBay account or sell anything at all.

Meyer Trioplan · May 11, 2015

I have managed to have mostly good luck on ebay with cameras provided that I follow some rules and guidelines, such as setting general price limits to what I purchase, sticking to certain kinds of cameras that fall within the price limits above, and purchasing under the knowledge that what I typically buy is typically 70 years old or more, and that it is bound to have some issues.

In the process, I've only gotten one complete dud which I hastily bid upon (but it was only a $17 loss), a pair of underwhelming performers, and at least all have some minor quirk to be remembered. The rest have ranged from "a bit better than hoped" to "a very pleasant surprise" to several "I only wish I could find another at this price" items. I generally avoid getting wrapped up in the emotional process of overbidding, and definitely avoid the ones that sit on buy-it-now for months in hopes of an endowed and desperate taker.

And though I shoot MF on old folders, I generally don't overly fixate on sharpness to a great degree, and am happy with a good quality image on a machine with a working shutter and a lens that renders colors nicely. In this way, I've had some really good luck.

Most of my ebay "finds" are spelled out over the past few months can be summarized here:
http://quirkyguywithacamera.blogspot.com/2015/05/film-rewind-second-take-on-some-film.html

eBay declining, or is it just a little bad luck?

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