eBay 360mm convertible lens without mention that the flange or threaded ring is missi

jp80874 · Jun 11, 2008

Symmar Schneider-Kreuznach 1:5, 6/360mm 6742623 11x14!!
Item number: 350069051371

Dear electricmonkie,

I am interested in buying this lens. Am I correct in understanding that it is missing the flange or threaded ring that holds it to a lensboard? See picture #4. I think the flange or threaded ring should go on the threads showing in picture #4.

Thank you,

John

Hello,

Thank you for your post. Please note that I am not an expert in the Professional Photography field. That being said, and provided that what knowledge and understanding I have is sufficient to your needs, based on the item and what I know of it, you are correct, the 'flange' is missing on this unit. What you see in the images is the exact item, as it really is, with no addition parts or accessories beyond the lens caps which are shown.

Sincerely,
Vyncent

Electric Monkie

It must not be Vyncent's fault if he is not a expert.
Just wanted to warn folks of a mistake I almost made.

John Powers

Dan Fromm · Jun 11, 2008

So, John, it is better to buy the lens without retaining ring at a good price or not to buy it without retaining ring at a good price? I mean, it takes a standard flange or ring and they're not that hard to find or expensive.

jp80874 · Jun 11, 2008

Dan,

My objection was that the lens was described as complete and functional. Had I not been looking to see if there was a ring I would not have known it was missing. They answered me, but at this point they have not updated the auction for the rest of the world.

I also have a hard time with sellers who dismiss their error by saying it is not their specialty. If they feel qualified to say it is good and complete, I feel they should know that much. One buyer's opinion.

John

epatsellis · Jun 11, 2008

John, out of curiosity, have you ever seen a 360 Symmar up close and personal? They're frickin' huge, what are you planning to use it on? I use both a Symmar and Componon, and the 120mm filter size is a bit of a pain as well. Mounting would be trivial, either using hot melt glue, or other alternative methods, if you can get the lens cheap enough.

erie

Magoo79 · Jun 11, 2008

If they are going to say complete then it should be complete with the flange or retaining ring. What good would a canon or nikon lens be if you had a hard time mounting it. I have bought large format lenses without the flange, but I was told up front it did not have it.

Sure, it's easy to pick up the phone and call adam at SK grimes and order some retaining rings, but that isn't the point. Complete should mean complete.

Mike.

jimgalli · Jun 11, 2008

Yeah, a 12X20 coverage lens for $199 bucks. That guy should be horse whipped. Oh, the little thingy where the cable release goes was broken off sometime and replaced with an aftermarket one that will NEVER break. Imprisonment!! What a horror.

JMC1969 · Jun 11, 2008

There is a sizable dent in the front ring, so I doubt a filter would go on it and first bid is $199.97. It has an old compound shutter with no mention as to whether it fires or not. No mention of it at all, yet in detail of the lens itself. That tells me it doesn't work, and they know do the road they can say they never said it did work. Quote from add "Item Functionality Functional (all tested functions worked)" I can hear it now "We never tested the shutter".

Anyway, $199.97+ for cells only is what you would be bidding on, is it worth that kind of money? I would have to do some research because I not sure if it is or not.

epatsellis said:
John, out of curiosity, have you ever seen a 360 Symmar up close and personal? They're frickin' huge, what are you planning to use it on? I use both a Symmar and Componon, and the 120mm filter size is a bit of a pain as well. Mounting would be trivial, either using hot melt glue, or other alternative methods, if you can get the lens cheap enough.

erie

DannL · Jun 11, 2008

I have read the listing four times now. I see nothing misleading in the text. Would "somebody" please point out the misleading information specific to this listing.

Maybe he deleted it already?

epatsellis · Jun 11, 2008

The dent, a piece of oak, a hole saw and a dowel and 5 mins at most would obviate that problem. at worst, a barrel lens, at best a CLA (which you should assume all used shutters need anyway), Paul Ebel or Carol Miller can take care of that for far less than $100. (or, about 2 hours to dissasemble, clean, reassemble and lube, if you're a novice, I can overhaul a compound in about an hour, haven't met one that was irrepairable if all the pieces are there yet)

Heck, I'd consider buying it to have a shutter for my Componon, if I didnt' already have a DB mount for it, it should be a 5FS compound, huge front and rear threads, perfect for hacking (or "experimenting", if you're more PC)

As noted, a lens that cover 12x20 (my experience is 16x20, at least for contact prints). well, if somebody here buys it and decides they dont' want the shutter, I'd be game.

erie

JMC1969 · Jun 11, 2008

I'm not saying there is text that is misleading to me. But in my opinion and having been burned a couple of times on "the bay", someone that gives that kind of info about part of the item and doesn't address a basic question as to whether the shutter works, is avoiding something. Plus a question was asked and it was not posted to the add.

Just my opinion, but there seems to be a lot of fluff in this add. Then again, I am no one you know to be trusted either, so make your own decisions and take opinions as you feel.

DannL said:
I have read the listing four times now. I see nothing misleading in the text. Would "somebody" please point out the misleading information specific to this listing.

Maybe he deleted it already?

JMC1969 · Jun 11, 2008

epatsellis said:
The dent, a piece of oak, a hole saw and a dowel and 5 mins at most would obviate that problem.

That's good to know. I was scared you could cause lens separation doing such a thing and have avoided lenses with dents in the ring.

at worst, a barrel lens, at best a CLA (which you should assume all used shutters need anyway), Paul Ebel or Carol Miller can take care of that for far less than $100. (or, about 2 hours to dissasemble, clean, reassemble and lube, if you're a novice, I can overhaul a compound in about an hour, haven't met one that was irrepairable if all the pieces are there yet)

Heck, I'd consider buying it to have a shutter for my Componon, if I didnt' already have a DB mount for it, it should be a 5FS compound, huge front and rear threads, perfect for hacking (or "experimenting", if you're more PC)

As noted, a lens that cover 12x20 (my experience is 16x20, at least for contact prints). well, if somebody here buys it and decides they dont' want the shutter, I'd be game.

erie

I have only ventured into a Prontor Press shutter, are compounds really that easy to work on? interesting.

jonw · Jun 11, 2008

I jumped at the opportunity to purchase this lens from a fellow LFer on another LF site for $250. It is a handy 11x14 lens. It is a large lens, convertible 360/620mm, has a small dent on the rear lens rim due to someone dropping it, mine came with a flange, only one leather lens cap and truly is a heavy lens. However, it sure shows a nice image on the gg and should produce some nice shots/contact prints. I think one who buys an old lens should plan on having the shutter serviced...that is just the cost for an older lens in a shutter.

epatsellis · Jun 11, 2008

jerk151 said:
That's good to know. I was scared you could cause lens separation doing such a thing and have avoided lenses with dents in the ring.

I have only ventured into a Prontor Press shutter, are compounds really that easy to work on? interesting.

well, if you pound the crap out of it, maybe, light taps with a hardwood dowel and a form the same id as the od of the lens can work wonders, I've straightened some I thought were goners for sure, including a 135 fujinon that was bent at close to a right angle, ended up interrupting the threads, to get filters to thread easily, but that's an extreme example, most light dents straighten with ease. If you want to get all fancy, less than a $100 will buy you a lens vise that will straighten nearly any dent, and then you'll be buying up every dented lens known to man just to play with the new toy.

Compounds are dirt simple, see the "inter lens shutter repair guide" at cameraeccentric's web site, they make a clockwork shutter seem overly complex. If everything is clean and not corroded, they almost have to work. (remember few, if any shots are taken much faster than 1 sec, in reality, after filter factors, most of my exposures are in the 2-10 sec. range. and the b & t functions are independent of the clockwork.

erie

erie

JMC1969 · Jun 12, 2008

epatsellis said:
If you want to get all fancy, less than a $100 will buy you a lens vise that will straighten nearly any dent, and then you'll be buying up every dented lens known to man just to play with the new toy.

That's funny, much like buying a large format camera to begin with.

Compounds are dirt simple, see the "inter lens shutter repair guide" at cameraeccentric's web site
erie

I haven't seen this before, thanks. I will spend days in there. I do see that there is the missing "Prontor Press shutter" exploded picture. I've been looking for that for some time now. I get excited everytime someone shows me a new site with stuff like this, but no one seems to have the "repair a Prontor press"

DannL · Jun 12, 2008

jp80874 said:
Dan,

My objection was that the lens was described as complete and functional. Had I not been looking to see if there was a ring I would not have known it was missing. They answered me, but at this point they have not updated the auction for the rest of the world.

I also have a hard time with sellers who dismiss their error by saying it is not their specialty. If they feel qualified to say it is good and complete, I feel they should know that much. One buyer's opinion.

John

Did he say it was complete? Or did we assume it was complete? I could not find were he stated this in the listing. We should be glad that eBay allows sellers to post pictures of their goods. And we should be glad eBay has configured to system to allow potential buyers to query a seller for specific details prior to a sale. The seller in this case appears to specialize mostly in computer gear and game machines. To expect them to know everything about every item they sell is somewhat silly. As a seller myself, I definitely don't know everything about the items I sell. So, the seller uses pictures and adjectives to hopefully get the best price possible. I think that is reasonable. I think someone should buy the lens mentioned. After the sale is complete and any returns or refunds have taken place, then we can bash this seller or commend the seller on their conduct.

2F/2F · Jun 12, 2008

It looks like it is missing the shutter retaining ring, not a flange. It's an easy fix, either fabricated or otherwise. I am sure that Flutots will have the ring.

It's not a perfect lens, so don't pay a perfect price for it. In fact, don't pay more than 2/3 what it's worth in that condition, as a general bit of EBay advice. I would say keep your bid to 1/2 its value in this case, because of how uncertain the seller is of anything.

As far as the comment that it is huge...of course it is huge. You didn't come in here asking which lens to get, so I assume you know all the benefits and drawbacks of the lens, as well as its size.

For comparison, I bought the Sinar DB-mounted barrel version of this lens (a more modern Symmar-S f/6.8 version) in excellent condition for $385 after shipping. I get so much use out of it in studio that I consider the lens well worth the price, although I might have paid a bit too much. So, lets place its value at $350.

Usually they go for about 150% to 200% of the DB price if they have a Copal 3 shutter. That makes it, let's say, a $700 lens if the modern S version in excellent condition. Now, take off a chunk of that because it is older, and take off a chunk because the shutter needs work, take off a chunk because you need to purchase the retaining ring, and take off a chunk because it has been dinged. Then, after all the chunks have been taken off, you might have a $300 lens (maybe). Bid 1/2 of that, or maybe as much as 2/3 or 3/4 if you are a risk taker.

Ole · Jun 12, 2008

There were never retaining rings for the Compound 5's - only flanges. The lenses which take #5 shutters are too heavy for retaining rings, and flanges have longer threaded sections.

2F/2F · Jun 12, 2008

OK - it's missing the thingy what threads onto the threads.

jp80874 · Jun 12, 2008

Wow, what a surprise that so many have taken an interest. Thank you all.

I shoot a 7x17 RH Phillips that should be rigid enough to hold the lens. I am doing a 100 picture series on the OH and Erie Canal for a book. I have 50 images approved to date, so lots more to do. Some of these shots have required extensive movements that have even gotten some vignetting out of my 12 inch Dagor. I bought the Dagor because I was getting vignetting on my 305 G Claron. Some of this may be operator learning how and some of it may be the challenge of the subject, architecture down in a hole or architecture around the locks..

Sandy King wrote extensively here or LF Forum on the advantages of this model over the 355 G Claron if you can deal with the weight. I use a baby jogger so the weight of one lens is not a big deal. I am 68 years old and these old eyes like as much focusing light as they can get. The shutter is 5.6.

My gut says wait for a better one.

Thanks all.

John Powers

eddie gunks · Jun 12, 2008

if nothing else i got a head ache from reading most of his writing. i would not buy from him only cause i would not want to read all that crap....i am sure it says somewhere in there that if there is a problem the buyer is screwed.....but i may be wrong as i have not read it all.....

epatsellis · Jul 2, 2008

2F/2F said:
For comparison, I bought the Sinar DB-mounted barrel version of this lens (a more modern Symmar-S f/6.8 version) in excellent condition for $385 after shipping. I get so much use out of it in studio that I consider the lens well worth the price, although I might have paid a bit too much. So, lets place its value at $350.

Usually they go for about 150% to 200% of the DB price if they have a Copal 3 shutter. That makes it, let's say, a $700 lens if the modern S version in excellent condition. Now, take off a chunk of that because it is older, and take off a chunk because the shutter needs work, take off a chunk because you need to purchase the retaining ring, and take off a chunk because it has been dinged. Then, after all the chunks have been taken off, you might have a $300 lens (maybe). Bid 1/2 of that, or maybe as much as 2/3 or 3/4 if you are a risk taker.

Wow, makes my wife feel better that I bought A DB mounted 360 Symmar-S with a Sinar shutter (complete with cables) for $400.

erie

2F/2F · Jul 2, 2008

Was it the one on EBay from San Francisco, about three or four months ago? If so, you scored big time. I meant to bid, but missed the end of the auction. I could have kicked myself when I got home and saw what it went for! I would have loved to have had a backup shutter. Do you know how much they are new? $4,500. Wow. And the lens was over $2,000, probably.

epatsellis · Jul 2, 2008

I think so, around Feb or so, might have been from san fran, don't remember for sure. She was not happy with me for spending that much, especially after buying the 8x10 P a week earlier. The Sinar shutter with DB mounted lenses makes life so easy in a studio environment.

erie

2F/2F · Jul 2, 2008

Indeed. Well, you got a deal and a half. The shutters alone have gone for more. You could even sell the shutter to pay for the lens, and have enough left over to take her out to a nice dinner. But then, you'd have to buy a Copal for the lens anyhow, so...

epatsellis · Jul 2, 2008

I've bought and sold a few lenses in Copal 3 shutters in the meantime, and while it's nice once in a while to throw the elements into one (and I have a 300 Symmar-S in Calumet clothing), the primary use has been in a studio environment, and for that, the Sinar shutter is head and shoulders above a separate shutter. (especially when using a compendium/multipurpose standard and the bellows mask 2, it's just too tight to get in there to adjust and cock the shutter, never mind adjust the aperture. I'm slowly accumulating a full set of lenses for the studio, and if by any chance anybody has DB lensboards (at non ebay/crazy pricing) lying about, I may be interested as well)

erie

eBay 360mm convertible lens without mention that the flange or threaded ring is missi

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